How to use a Logbook for dummies
This is the one I use.
Log Books | Commercial Log Books | NLB035 | 3. Pooleys Non-JAR Commercial Pilots Log Book
(They do a nice leather cover for it as well).
In my case, I make stickers up on my PC and have changed all the column headings to suit the particular pattern of my flying, and then I created an Excel spreadsheet to match that.
If you're in for the long run and can afford a few extra pennies, these are beautiful and I may well treat myself to one when my current logbook eventually fills up.
Leather Pilot Logbook - www.leatherlogbook.com
G
Log Books | Commercial Log Books | NLB035 | 3. Pooleys Non-JAR Commercial Pilots Log Book
(They do a nice leather cover for it as well).
In my case, I make stickers up on my PC and have changed all the column headings to suit the particular pattern of my flying, and then I created an Excel spreadsheet to match that.
If you're in for the long run and can afford a few extra pennies, these are beautiful and I may well treat myself to one when my current logbook eventually fills up.
Leather Pilot Logbook - www.leatherlogbook.com
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 1st Jul 2013 at 11:32.
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Thanks Genghis those leather logbooks are tempting. Was just talking to a guy in my school its common practice to buy in packs such as this one-Transair Private Pilot (PPL) Study Pack
They do this as they can get up to a 40% discount that way, is this a good idea or is it too much?
They do this as they can get up to a 40% discount that way, is this a good idea or is it too much?
Last edited by Gulfstream757; 1st Jul 2013 at 14:32. Reason: spelling error
Don't buy a starter pack - buy the bits you actually need when you actually need them, and where possible, save a few quid buying items like the CRP and textbooks on eBay. A decent quality or re-useable supermarket carrier bag makes a perfectly good student flight bag (although personally I favour old conference bags, or you can buy similar bags for a fiver on most markets). Also buy the latest CAA half million (not the Transair one million in that particular pack - nobody uses the 1m chart whilst learning) chart when you start your nav. They get updated regularly and you don't want to be flying with an out of date chart.
G
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 1st Jul 2013 at 16:50.
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An example use of the Any Other Flying column: I work with Air Cadets and sometimes get a flight in a Grob Tutor. I'm legally a passenger but in practice once they discover I have a PPL most instructors let me do most or all of the handling. So, I log those flights as AOF, handlers capacity: SuperNumerarY, as I'm not PUT but it's nice to have a record.
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Thanks Genghis I was wrong actually they basically say at my school to go for whatever is cheapest sometimes the packs can actually be more expensive. I just ordered my logbook should be waiting for me next time I go flying thanks for all your help can't wait to get started!
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I always make my students fill out the first few pages in pencil, so that they don't mess up the additions or fill in the wrong boxes and totals.
And remember a paper logbook is like a diary, something to look back on with fond memories, to be treasured.
I had two stolen long ago when left in a van. Fortunately they had already passed through the hands of the CAA for licence issue.
But they had a lot of memerable night flights and it felt like the death of a pet when they went.
Good idea to make a photo copy or photograph pages with mobile occasionally.
And remember a paper logbook is like a diary, something to look back on with fond memories, to be treasured.
I had two stolen long ago when left in a van. Fortunately they had already passed through the hands of the CAA for licence issue.
But they had a lot of memerable night flights and it felt like the death of a pet when they went.
Good idea to make a photo copy or photograph pages with mobile occasionally.
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How to use a Logbook for dummies
Best to use a log book for what it was designed for, recording flight times.
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I always make my students fill out the first few pages in pencil,
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There is BAckpacker.
But many instructors have learn't over the years that pencil first then do a couple with them then leave them for a bit "solo" then check and sort the mistakes out saves gallons of tippex.
The dual stuff is usually ok but it goes adrift when they start mixing dual and solo work.
Some old hands won't let students touch there log books until after its been submitted to the CAA.
But many instructors have learn't over the years that pencil first then do a couple with them then leave them for a bit "solo" then check and sort the mistakes out saves gallons of tippex.
The dual stuff is usually ok but it goes adrift when they start mixing dual and solo work.
Some old hands won't let students touch there log books until after its been submitted to the CAA.
Some old hands won't let students touch there log books until after its been submitted to the CAA.
isn't there some kind of regulation that it has to be done with indelible ink or something like that?
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To be honest after a year of full time instructing I was coming round to their way of thinking.
You could keep hold of it and keep it in the training records and come license application the whole lot would go in and it would be issued with 15mins of work.
Or you could spend 2 hours checking it through and getting it matching the training records and log sheets.
Or you could fire the whole lot in without checking anything and it would invariably bounce and then have to fanny around checking it and correcting it anyway.
All of which was of course unpaid as a FI and you had to do after flying was finished with your boss bitching at you usually half pissed.
Then the intricacy's of how to log the flights for a night qual to prove that they were full stops. Thought I had cracked it until 6 in one got bounced and again boss bitching I told you to log each circuit individually and not just put "full stop landings" in the remarks.
I presume now with the EASA bollocks its going to be even worse for anal retentive paper work for no benefit to flight safety or quality of training.
You could keep hold of it and keep it in the training records and come license application the whole lot would go in and it would be issued with 15mins of work.
Or you could spend 2 hours checking it through and getting it matching the training records and log sheets.
Or you could fire the whole lot in without checking anything and it would invariably bounce and then have to fanny around checking it and correcting it anyway.
All of which was of course unpaid as a FI and you had to do after flying was finished with your boss bitching at you usually half pissed.
Then the intricacy's of how to log the flights for a night qual to prove that they were full stops. Thought I had cracked it until 6 in one got bounced and again boss bitching I told you to log each circuit individually and not just put "full stop landings" in the remarks.
I presume now with the EASA bollocks its going to be even worse for anal retentive paper work for no benefit to flight safety or quality of training.
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BillieBob, you are correct that the ANO (article 79 in particular) doesn't describe how flight time should be logged. Paper and ink, paper and pencil, or electronic, all seem to be acceptable.
But we are now living under EASA, so I just checked CAP804. And things became a bit more complicated there, as usual. In the regulations themselves it states that electronic logbooks are OK for CAT use. But apparently for CAT only:
Straight after this CAP804 includes a sample logbook page, with the instructions on how to fill it in. And in those instructions it states:
(CAP804 as downloaded from the CAA website, Section 1 Part E Page 9 which is page 125 in the PDF version I have).
I have not checked the material that originates from EASA itself as the EASA website throws a mysql error, but I happen to have the AMC/GM to EASA-FCL (Annex to ED Decision 2011/016/R, initial issue, 15 december 2011) here at hand.
So the suggested format is no longer "strongly recommended", as CAP804 states, but is mandatory. And again there are instructions for use:
In this particular document (dated 15 december 2011) there are no additional AMCs related to FCL.050. I don't know (and am not able to check) if an updated AMC regarding FCL.050 has been released in the meantime.
The conclusion that I (hesitatingly and tentatively) draw from this is that computerised records are not acceptable to EASA except in the case of commercial air transport. You have to do a paper logbook to fulfill the authorities requirements. Furthermore, the paper logbook has to be done in ink or indelible pencil.
But we are now living under EASA, so I just checked CAP804. And things became a bit more complicated there, as usual. In the regulations themselves it states that electronic logbooks are OK for CAT use. But apparently for CAT only:
4 Format of the record
4.1 Details of flights flown for commercial air transport may be recorded in a
computerised format maintained by the operator. In this case an operator should
make the records of all flights operated by the pilot, including differences and
familiarisation training, available upon request to the flight crew member concerned.
4.2 For other flights, the pilot must record the details of the flights flown in a log. The
following format is strongly recommended.
4.1 Details of flights flown for commercial air transport may be recorded in a
computerised format maintained by the operator. In this case an operator should
make the records of all flights operated by the pilot, including differences and
familiarisation training, available upon request to the flight crew member concerned.
4.2 For other flights, the pilot must record the details of the flights flown in a log. The
following format is strongly recommended.
All entries in the log should be made in ink or indelible pencil.
I have not checked the material that originates from EASA itself as the EASA website throws a mysql error, but I happen to have the AMC/GM to EASA-FCL (Annex to ED Decision 2011/016/R, initial issue, 15 december 2011) here at hand.
AMC1 to FCL.050 - Recording of flight time:
[...]
(c) Format of the record:
(1) Details of flights flown under commercial air transport may be recorded in a computerised format maintained by the operator. In this case an operator should make the records of all flights operated by the pilot, including differences and familiarisation training, available upon request to the flight crew member concerned;
(2) For other types of flight, the pilot should record the details of the flights flown in the following logbook format. For sailplanes and balloons, a suitable format should be used that contains the relevant items mentioned in (a) and additional information specific to the type of operation.
[...]
(c) Format of the record:
(1) Details of flights flown under commercial air transport may be recorded in a computerised format maintained by the operator. In this case an operator should make the records of all flights operated by the pilot, including differences and familiarisation training, available upon request to the flight crew member concerned;
(2) For other types of flight, the pilot should record the details of the flights flown in the following logbook format. For sailplanes and balloons, a suitable format should be used that contains the relevant items mentioned in (a) and additional information specific to the type of operation.
All entries in the logbook should be made in ink or indelible pencil.
The conclusion that I (hesitatingly and tentatively) draw from this is that computerised records are not acceptable to EASA except in the case of commercial air transport. You have to do a paper logbook to fulfill the authorities requirements. Furthermore, the paper logbook has to be done in ink or indelible pencil.
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If you are looking to go commercial I would STRONGLY back up the suggestion of going electronic. When you start applying to airlines, each one wants different info on your hours by type/weight band/power plant/ type of operation etc., handwritten logbook this can take you days to fill in, electronic can normally be done in minutes.
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Incidentally, has anybody ever actually seen an indelible pencil. I don't think that I'd know one if it bit me.
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I think they are made out of silver nitrate G.
The only time I have come across them was in a medical use and that was for burning scar tissue. The old doctor that was applying it to me was giving me the history of it. And the indelible pencil was mentioned
I think you can get them in art shops but not quite the strength of the caustic sticks used by the medics. He also mentioned another type that gave you a purple dye when wet which you could get a copy off using tissue paper. He had used them when studying medicine so he could copy his notes at a later date.
Did they not used to etch some metals with them as well?
The only time I have come across them was in a medical use and that was for burning scar tissue. The old doctor that was applying it to me was giving me the history of it. And the indelible pencil was mentioned
I think you can get them in art shops but not quite the strength of the caustic sticks used by the medics. He also mentioned another type that gave you a purple dye when wet which you could get a copy off using tissue paper. He had used them when studying medicine so he could copy his notes at a later date.
Did they not used to etch some metals with them as well?
Last edited by mad_jock; 14th Jul 2013 at 06:05.
But we are now living under EASA, so I just checked CAP804.