Dayton airshow crash, pilot and wing walker killed.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

What about health and safety issues?

Surely there must be a point when, no matter how thrilling the spectacle is and no matter how daring the participant may be, the authorities say enough is enough.

Not long since another Stearman crashed in the US with a wingwalker on board and a man fell to his death carrying out a stunt from an aircraft to a helicopter.

Whilst these accidents all occurred in the US, would they (apart from 'normal' wingwalking) be sanctioned by the UK CAA?

FOK

[Dragon2]

The Stearman does not stall or spin - it dives into the ground because the pilot commands up elevator and reverses the roll. He either does this to veer away from the crowd he is about to fly into, knowing he will die either way, or as a last ditch effort to roll erect and being a bit overhasty with the elevator (I think blind panic might be a better word for this scenario)

Be careful of gauging the elevator angle by looking at the proximal end- the cutouts for the rudder give an erroneous perception- rather look at the horns on the distal end.

There is no significant forward elevator from the moment he rolls inverted, despite his obvious descending, and he doesn't even get completely inverted, so this is an obvious case of control problems, most likely fouled and I will hazard a flyer at the front seatstraps or a camera coming loose passing zero G's and preventing forward stick movement.

[Pittsextra]

you'd think he'd have already been trimmed for zero g??

[IFMU]

Dragon2,
Seemed like the nose came up just before the roll. If you are slow and descending inverted, what will pushing the stick forward do? I would think it would stall. The left wing, in a left roll and at negative G would have had more AOA because of aileron displacement. If it snapped I would expect it to go in the direction it did. Not sure I understand the comment about front seat passengers and cameras. A third passenger on an acrobatic demonstration flight? Loose cameras in the same? Seems odd to me.
Bryan

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

The assymetric drag and weight would exacerbate the airflow disturbance - all leading to a propensity for the wings on the side the wing walker is on to stall.

As he rolls inverted it seems he realises as the ground ahead comes into view that he is too low and pushes forward to climb, stalling the wings on one side. The aeroplane doesn't actually achieve stabilised inverted flight, as it stalls before he's even got the wings level from the half-roll-to-inverted and flicks the other way into the ground. It quite distinctly 'lets go' in that video - autorotation into a spin (assymetric stall).

[MOREOIL]

Initially I thought it looked like a stalled wing, but on frame by frame viewing it appears he never established himself in stable inverted flight, was low and descending when he tries to reverse the roll and Regain erect flight. The aircraft responds as you would expect from the position of the rudder/elevator/ailerons at all times, I am afraid he appears to fly it into the ground, perhaps his harness. Was loose or he had other issues, no doubt the many videos of the incident will provide good evidence for any lessons to be gained from this terrible accident.
Coincidently, I flew I flew a stearman with my partner on the wing for the first time, less than two weeks ago,
MOREOIL

[englishal]

Pilot incapacitation?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I very much doubt it's a deliberate roll reversal. The aeroplane does not roll axially in that final fatal roll, but around a point outboard of the fuselage on the side that didn't stall, and at the same time descends into the ground. All point (it seems to me) to flow breakaway (stall), on the side where the wing walker is, following the pitch-up.

[MOREOIL]

Shaggy, pause the video and you can see the ailerons reverse the roll, as an initial guess, I would say as he rolls inverted the nose is not high enough, he notices the sink before reaching wings level, turning slightly to crowd, the forward stick he puts in to raise the nose increases the turn to crowd as well, so he reverses the roll, gently to keep the wing walker in place, on the inverted side of knife edge he puts in back stick , no or little top rudder, and this finally pitches it down. There is a similar end to a slow roll in a Texan on YouTube somewhere, same result. If the wing had stalled I would have expected to see aileron instinctively go contra roll. But the many videos will provide most of the answers I expect.
MOREOIL

[vihai]

http://www.toledoblade.com/image/201...-Wicker-46.jpg

This picture might be relevant

[SFCC]

Very relevant indeed. No stall at any point.
Lower and undoubtably slower than he had planned, but at no point did the aeroplane stall

[007helicopter]

I flew I flew a stearman with my partner on the wing for the first time, less than two weeks ago,
MOREOIL

A genuine question MOREOIL, why do you and your partner do it?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

http://www.toledoblade.com/image/201...-Wicker-46.jpg

This picture might be relevant

I don't think so. If you watch the vid there is no point in final couple of seconds that she waves to the crowd while inverted. There's a brief 'both hands above her head' as she realises after the break to a left roll from a right roll that they are going in.

The vid is too indistinct to see the ailerons. It does roll around the wings opposite side to the walker rather than axially around the fuselage in that final fatal roll, and it does pitch down into the ground as it rolls. Looks clear as day to be an assymetrric stall/ incipient flick to me.

[Dragon2]

If anyone still has questions about my post above, please ask or even PM me, and I will try to explain in more detail - I am quite open to friendly debate and will do my best to explain the technical stuff to anyone with an eager mind. Shaggy it seems you are at a disadvantage not having access to some of the newer high definition footage which clearly shows the control positions, PM me I will try to help by sending you some relevant links and snapshots. I would've thought along similar lines if I hadn't seen the good videos.

[MOREOIL]

007H, an astonishing number of people have wing walking, strapped to a rig, on their bucket list, or to celebrate retiring or something, admit I don't fancy being on the wing myself but will probably try it soon. I fly because the extra effort required challenges me, the focus on extra safety , constantly assessing almost everything, engine,height,speed, terrain,time,walker body language,wind, gentle control inputs, lifts the usual workload to levels I aspire to.
Shaggy, there are more than one videos on YouTube at the moment, it's harrowing stuff but lessons to be learned from pause frame viewing, have a look at T6 barrel roll pilot dies too, sobering stuff for those rolling low
MOREOIL

[Dragon2]

englishal Pilot: incapacitation?

Nope the pilot gives meaningful control inputs right until the very end. The only complication to this is his inability to give stick forward elevator while inverted, but even during this he is still giving other meaningful inputs. No incapacitation.

IFMU:Not sure I understand the comment about front seat passengers and cameras

A significant number of control problems in aerobatic flight result from loose objects in the cockpit fouling the controls. This is especially so in a vacated cockpit like the one in the front of this Stearman, where there is no-one to police any objects gone walkabout. Common guilty parties are lapstraps that haven't been secured properly, lasooing the stick or the buckle getting wedged in against the stick. More and more today we see GOPRO cameras (and others) carried onboard to take some of the onboard views of this show you will see from previous shows, so it is possible they could have broken loose and done the obstructing. Bear in mind that the instant this first roll reaches 90degrees the cockpit transitions through roughly zero-G and this is when objects tend to go float about and get into trouble, so the timing fits perfectly. It has happened many times before. Something catastrophically prevented this pilot from applying significant forward stick while inverted resulting in the cascade that caused the deaths.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

There is a good HD 14 minute video on YouTube filmed in 2011 showing the whole display by Jane Wicker, with her ex-husband flying the Stearman.

If you compare that video with the crash sequence, personally I don't think there is any other conclusion than that suggested by Dragon 2:

it dives into the ground because the pilot commands up elevator and reverses the roll. He either does this to veer away from the crowd he is about to fly into, knowing he will die either way, or as a last ditch effort to roll erect and being a bit overhasty with the elevator (I think blind panic might be a better word for this scenario)

.

No complicated aerodynamic effects, no flick roll - they'd done this hundreds of times - just they were lower and (maybe) slower and after 23 years of wing walking Jane's luck ran out.

SITW :-(

[Ditchdigger]

Something catastrophically prevented this pilot from applying significant forward stick while inverted resulting in the cascade that caused the deaths.

Perhaps knowing the fact that too abrupt a maneuver would almost certainly have caused Ms. Wicker to fall from the wing was a contributing factor?

[airlinersinflight]

She actually has a safety line which prevents her from falling off. I think has a hook on the end which she attaches to the plane when she's in position. It's mentioned in a description of her gear on a website. If you look at close up pics of her on the wing you can see her holding it with her left hand.

[what next]

She actually has a safety line which prevents her from falling off.

In the interview they took shortly before the flight she said that she's one of the few wingwalkers who fly without a safetly line!