Dayton airshow crash, pilot and wing walker killed.

[airlinersinflight]

Here is an extremely clear pic taken just before the crash. You can clearly see that the elevator is deflected downward significantly and you can even see the pilot's face.

http://jto.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-conte...0130624a6a.jpg

[airlinersinflight]

Its not like a typical safety line. I believe its just a hook with a short rope that's attached to her belt. I believe she can only use it when she's in a stationary position.

Here's her equipment run-down. She says here that she uses it when she's dangling from the wing.

http://media.cleveland.com/plain_dea...510aabf968.jpg

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Perhaps knowing the fact that too abrupt a maneuver would almost certainly have caused Ms. Wicker to fall from the wing was a contributing factor?

Yes, i think that's a valid point and probably explains the pilot's indecision which ultimately led to the accident. He just ran out of options - couldn't roll as planned, couldn't reverse the roll as it might have caused issues for Ms Wicker and if he'd continued inverted (was that possible!) it would have also confused Ms Wicker and may have led to problems.

By the time he'd considered (and tried) the possibilities it was just too late.

Insofar as the safety line is concerned that (and other) questions are answered under FAQ on her website.

Another point is that she always stated that she used the 3:1 rule - 3 points of contact (pointed out on both the website and during the 14 minute video). however there are times during her routine when she only had two points of contact, such as when hanging upside down from the wing.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Anyone know if and where an accident report will be published?

[IFMU]

Ultimately the report will end up here:
N T S B - Aviation Accidents - Index of Months
The reports are listed in the month of the accident. There is also a search function for all the reports in the database. The NTSB generally does a short report within a month and the detailed analysis within 6-12 months.

Bryan

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Thanks Bryan. I'll be interested to read it.

[Ridger]

Sad news. Whatever the cause, lack of height certainly didn't help matters. I've never understood why civvy display aircraft are flown so low - surely 500' would be plenty low enough for appropriate manouvres and offer at least some margin if something (notwithstanding mechanical failure) doesn't go to plan. I understand Germany has applied a 500' deck height, would be interesting to know if it has made any change to accident rates.

[JohnDixson]

Minimum Altitude

Ridger makes a point. A current example: minimum altitude at the Paris Airshow for Presentation Flights is either 330ft or 500ft, depending on the approval.

[maxred]

Ridger makes a point. A current example: minimum altitude at the Paris Airshow for Presentation Flights is either 330ft or 500ft, depending on the approval

There is a real issue here, and truth is, it has always been there.

Air display participants strive to make the show ever more spectacular, ever more 'daredevil', ever lower, ever faster, ever more extreme. All to attract the watching Joe Public, away from the Ice Cream vendor, who, in general, are oblivious to the courage/difficulty,dangers, that the show participants can put themselves in. More and more, the ground attrcations, where the shows make the money, seem to be the centre, with the air displays almost, a side event.

I remember some years back, having done a display, I landed, and asked my wife what she had thought of it? Sorry we missed it, kids were in a ground based sim. Then, to add insult to injury, when do the fast jets arrive, now they are 'real' aeroplanes!

Whether we like it or not, display pilots will always compete against the ice cream vendor, and I am no longer sure that putting lives in danger with ever lower routines, is actually worth it.

And no disrespect to the appalling loss of life in this incident, where a thoroughly professional show, ended in tragedy.

[barit1]

I heard the Dayton show announcer (Rob Reider) interviewed yesterday, and he gave a most lucid description of airshow clearance progression. The pilot must first demonstrate his routine using a "floor" of 500 feet AGL. After several shows under this restriction, the pilot requalifies with a 250 foot floor, and finally a "no restrictions" floor.

Regarding the likely cause of the accident, I'm inclined to go with Dragon2 in post #36, supported by airlinersinflight's photo; There is no forward stick at the very moment I would expect it. My father taught aerobatics in WWII, and the inspection for loose or foreign objects was always a big safety stress.

[mark one eyeball]

It was a ridiculous height to perform this manoeuvre

[Wizofoz]

Here is an extremely clear pic taken just before the crash. You can clearly see that the elevator is deflected downward significantly and you can even see the pilot's face.

http://jto.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-conte...0130624a6a.jpg

"downwards" relative to the ground, which is indeed "Up" elevator, and Aileron deflected to roll AWAY from the horizontal- It does indeed seem he was trying to roll up-right after botching the roll to inverted.

[JEM60]

I have attended many airshows over many years, and was a PPL.
Sadly. I have witnessed 11 crashes and 9 fatalities. Very low flying at displays has always been a great concern to me as a spectator. In this country, England that is, I have always understood that there is a floor to display flying, and it is never lower than 50 feet for the most experienced pilot, with the highest Display Rating. Less experienced get a higher 'floor'. I attended Dayton Airshow twice, and Oshkosh 6 times over the years, and the extremely low altitude flown on MANY occasions by airshow pilots in the States has always been a worry to me. The attitude seems to be that the lower you fly, the better you are, all part of the American macho image, I guess. All I can say is that seeing this extreme low flying scares the hell out of me, I get no pleasure from it, it would be no less spectacular if flown 20 or 50 feet higher, and if that were the case, quite a few airshow pilots that I used to see would still be around today!. Come on, U.S.A. put a minimum height for ALL displays, and stop these unnecessary disaster scenarios, which occur far, far too often.

[Pittsextra]

Obviously at some point hitting the ground is going to hurt so in that context height becomes a factor but the video doesn't exactly show the best of control regardless of height. Mishandling the aircraft is a greater cause of accidents.

You can't really blame airshow organisers after all at what point do you make the call that the pilot is going to be ok? For instance you've had situations with (for example) a well respected BAe test pilot making mistakes with a humble barrel roll or an Italian mil. helicopter pilot make error with a wingover.

[foxmoth]

I certainly do not think low in itself is the dangerous bit, it is the manoeuvres you are doing at these heights that matter- even I could fly down a display line erect at 5' and in say an Extra, inverted at 50' with no problem, it is when you are manoeuvring at these heights that the difficulties arise, and certainly I would have thought rolling a Stearman at this height, with the added complication of someone on the wing, very dubious.

[barit1]

I witnessed a near-crash 50+ years ago at an early EAA meet at Rockford IL. It was a very pretty homebuilt biplane, maybe 3/4 the size of a Stearman, and he entered a spin at what seemed a suicidal altitude. After about 3 turns he accomplished a very dicey recovery over a depression between two runways. He was actually below the runways, hanging on the prop, virtually begging for a secondary stall.

I had a lot more respect for the airplane than for the pilot.

[IFMU]

NTSB premiminary report

Can be found here:
CEN13FA274

Bryan

[foxmoth]

Well that tells us nothing new.

[IFMU]

Sure, it tells us the investigators read slowly, and haven't gotten through the whole thread yet! Final report takes 6-12 months.
Bryan

[foxmoth]

Sure, it tells us the investigators read slowly,

As said - tells us nothing NEW