Flying in the UK with FAA licence

[alland2012]

Can anyone give me a answer to a question
Can I fly G reg. aircraft in the UK on my FAA PPL ?, or can I only fly PIC if its N reg ?

If the answer is no to either or both of the above can you tell me do my 100 hrs with a FAA ticket count towards any credit towards the required hours if I need to do additional training in the UK
Or is it a case of starting from scratch ?

Thank you

[darkroomsource]

I have an FAA CPL. I can use it in the UK with full PPL priveledges, including the IR, however I can't exercise CPL priveledges.
I believe that an FAA PPL will give you full PPL priveledges in the UK.
N or G reg aircraft.
I'm not absolutely certain about flying a G-reg in the EU though.

[sapperkenno]

@darkroomsource; regarding the "including the IR", presumably you mean you have IMC/IR(R) privileges in a G-reg, as opposed to full IR privileges, correct?!

[S-Works]

You can for private purposes until 8th April 2014. After that date you will also require and equivalent Part FCL licence with associated ratings. So if you have an FAA IR you will also require an EASA IR.

If memory serves me right you will still be able to fly Annex II/Permit aircraft within the UK on an FAA licence.

Commercial operations on a ICAO licence required dual licences as of 17th September last year.

[alland2012]

Thank you for the quick responses guys, it is good news to know I don't need to do 40 plus hours to get my UK PPL rating as one local flight school told me I would need to do.

So now am i correct in thinking I just need to do some time with a CFI to learn the airspace/ radio differences here in the UK and I will be good to go..?

[darkroomsource]

I thought I could exercise the same IR priveleges I have on my FAA CPL, which is a full IR, with no restrictions, but since I've let it lapse, and haven't really got the desire to fly in weather, I haven't been exercising it.

[JDJ]

@alland2012 I think that's right - I did a similar thing several years ago after doing the FAA PPL(H). It's a mixture of getting used to UK conditions, and convincing people you won't break their aircraft....

Just checked on Irv Lee's site (higherplane.flyer.co.uk/combos.html) - and the rules will change in April 2014 regarding using other licences with EASA aircraft,

cheers,

Jon.

[G280]

Darkroomsource

I don't believe (assuming you haven't got a JAA/EASA ticket issued in addition) you can exercise IR/IMCR or whatever they're calling it these days at all unless its in an N registered aircraft.

You can, however (at the moment) operate privately (VMC) in a category/class of aircraft you are qualified in within UK airspace. Crossing international FIR's is an issue...

[Cobalt]

Bose & JDJ have it. Up to April 2014, you can fly any UK registered aircraft on any ICAO PPL, but this is limited to private operation, and if you have an IR you cannot use it to fly in IMC in controlled airspace, or in any Class A airspace ["flying in controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules" is the precise wording of what you are not allowed to do, so it allows LESS than the UK IMC rating]

Any rental check you will do here is likely to include ample familiarisation, if indeed they know the regulation. Point them to CAP 804, Part I, Section 4, Part Q, Subpart 1, No. 3 [sorry - CAP 804 is THAT convoluted]. They still might not allow you to fly on your FAA licence, though. Just because.


If you want to get a brand-new EASA licence, you need

• an EASA medical
• 100 hours total time
• pass the human performance and air law exams
• pass the skill test [including level 6 English proficiency sign-off]
• you also need to pass the radiotelephony theory and practical exams to get a radiotelepohony licence

Training for the above is "as required", and can be included in the 100 hours TT if you are a bit short. I have no idea how well you fly, but other than radio and one or two procedures the difference between FAA and EASA PRACTICALskill test are small, in my opinion the European one is slightly easier and there is NO SIGNIFICANT ORAL. If you are current, training should be in the single digit hours, basically familiarisation, refresher and a mock test.

If needed point your flying school to CAP 804, Part I, Section 4, Part Q, Subpart 2, No. 3.

Interestingly, the above is EXACTLY THE SAME as it was under JAR.

[sapperkenno]

I don't believe (assuming you haven't got a JAA/EASA ticket issued in addition) you can exercise IR/IMCR or whatever they're calling it these days at all unless its in an N registered aircraft.

As far as I am aware, an IMC/IR(R) can be issued to someone holding an EASA/UK licence, based on them having passed their FAA instrument practical test, or an IPC within the last 12 months, obviously once you've paid them the money. Also, something I didn't know until recently, is that an ICAO IR allows you to fly outside CONTROLLED airspace in a G-reg in IMC anyway. So depending on what you want to do, there might not be much point paying for the EASA rating, and continue to fly in IMC in class G in the UK, presumably providing you maintain FAA instrument currency.

[Ellemeet]

Basically there are 3 things

1. is that (some?) countries will allow you to fly their reg on an icao license within their own national borders. I have never found where this was written but it seems to be true. Wether or not ir priveleges of your ICAO license are then also accepted I cannot tell you.. If so .. it would be full IR priveleges, not imc .. as you do not have an IMC rating

2. you can also apply for a validation. In that case the number of hours are important and you need to do a couple of things (checkride .. etc). However, these are only valid for a certain time (1 year?). After april 8, 2014 you can nolonger renew these .. so a validation will become a one time deal.

3. you can convert.. That is exactly what was described in one of the previous posts..

For IR conversion .. wait ... till the cbmir becomes available. If you have 50hours+ as pic on an ifr flightplan you will be able to do a checkride with oral exam ..

[darkroomsource]

I thank you all for the clarification in IR/IMC/etc with an FAA certificate. I haven't been flying in any kind of weather, and have no desire to do so for a while, but when I do I'll make sure I have the right 'paperwork' and also make sure I've had a significant amount of recurrent training (it's been 3 years since I flew in clouds, I think I need a good 5-10 hours of refresher training at least before I'd be comfortable)

[mary meagher]

Alland2012, there are still, I believe, significant differences in using your FAA PPL in the UK.

The FAA PPL doesn't have a separate night rating, over here, at least when I used to be current, you had to have a special night rating to fly at night. Furthermore, very few airports in the UK light up at night! certainly not the handy press the transmit button you can use in the US to turn them on....
In the USA they assume you will fly at night, and so that would probably have been included in your basic training for your FAA license.

The other horrible thing about the limited airspace in the UK, they do not welcome you into the airways! which are very very busy, so it makes sense. In the US, even the lowly PPL is usually given the assistance of the controllers when asked. The logic in America is lots of space, and they do like to know what you are up to....

[Whopity]

The FAA PPL doesn't have a separate night rating, over here, at least when I used to be current, you had to have a special night rating to fly at night.

What was this special night rating, who issued it and what was it called? The FAA licence includes night privileges. I think the issue here was that all night flight was IFR in the UK and the ANO article 62 did not allow IFR flight on an ICAO licence although what it actually said was:

A licence deemed valid under paragraph (2) does not entitle the holder:

(b) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in controlled
airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules

This was generally translated as Day VFR!

[alland2012]

Thank you Mary, Yes I received night flying training during my basic FAA training.
I do fly at night in Florida (on nice nights) and of course it is helped by the many airports that have auto runway lighting available at the click of a button, I also have the help of ATC at the class Delta & Charlie airports I frequent. I would not be planning on any night flying here in the UK.

I am semi retired and spend quite a lot of time at my Florida home (4 times a year for stays of 5/6 weeks) so that's where most of my flying takes place.

My wish to fly in the UK is just to get out once in a while to help me stay sharp with local or medium x/c trips, and only on good flying days, I don't need to be anywhere in a rush, so it would never get to making a "go or no go" decision situation.
I would not mind investing a little more money into any additional training I would need to be compliant and safe in UK airspace, but if it came down to the requirement of a full 40 odd hour course, then I would probably not bother and just keep to my US flying, and maybe find another suitably qualified UK pilot to sit along side with occasionally.

During my next Florida trip in July I am doing my IFR training, but it is purely to assist me in case I should unintentionally get into a unplanned Instrument weather situation. I would never launch into IFR from choice.

Thanks for all the contributions on this thread, it makes for some interesting reading.

[mm_flynn]

Originally Posted by Whopity

What was this special night rating, who issued it and what was it called? ...


This was generally translated as Day VFR!

Point 1 - Mary was talking about the UK night rating not an FAA rating (as it is part of the PPL)

Point 2 - It should have been translated as - generally the same privileges as a UK PPL I.e. Day VMC VFR or IFR in class G, night VMC IFR in class G, Day VMC in class D, night VMC in class D zones under SVFR. Day or Night IMC in class G if you hold an IR, Day or Night IMC in class D areas and zones if you apply for an IMCr (now IR(R)). Now under EASA much simpler privileges but more admin to implement.

[Whopity]

This was generally translated as Day VFR!

I was referring to the simplistic translation applied by the Head of Licensing at the CAA with whom I remember arguing the point. Prior to Class G it was simply "uncontrolled airspace" and therefore outside the ANO Article which stated "

in controlled
airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules

His argument was that to fly IFR it had to be either a privilege of the licence, i.e. not prohibited, or you needed an instrument qualification which was not validated under the same article.