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VFR Question

Old 25th Apr 2013, 22:50
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Question VFR Question

I have had one lesson so far and I have a few questions , if you guys can help clarify

So VFR means you are constantly on the look out for other planes. Doesn't it mean that you are focusing more on trying to avoid collision rather than learning other things?

I got a feeling that it was quite stressful to fly thinking that another plane will just appear in front of you and you will have to avoid collision.

Constantly looking around the plane is just makes it burdensome rather than enjoyable.

This is what I have felt and would appreciate other people's thoughts
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 23:13
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VFR means Visual Flight Rules which means you look where you are going visually, avoid hitting mountains, other aircraft etc.
As oposed to IFR, Instrument Flight Rules where you are guided by ground based Air Traffic Controllers.
Speak to your instructor.
It will eventually become as natural as driving a car.
The whole thing can't be judged with one lesson.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 23:15
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Thanks for your reply

I beg to disagree it cannot be compared to a car. Driving a car, you have road markings, signals, zebra crossings, road signs, you can apply emergency break, you can stop.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 23:31
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dear original poster...

you are right, flying a plane is not like driving a car. that's all there is to it.

YES , its hard to avoid collision, but we have made things easier to avoid collision since Orville and Wilbur Wright took turns in the first real airplane.

ONE. We fly at altitudes in such a way that west bound planes are at a different altitude than east bound planes(speak to your instructor about the hemispheric rule for details)

TWO. The other pilot is looking out for you too! so it is a shared responsibility.

Three. A good instructor will teach you how to divide your visual scan to look for other planes and manage your own plane.

Four. Use the lighting system on your plane, including landing light to make YOUR plane more visible to others...oh we hope they do the same too.

Five. Keep those windshields spotlessly clean...even a fly speck can look like a plane at a distance and even obscure a real plane.

Six...Remember if you are in a high wing plane, you can't see up...so clear when you climb! In a low wing plane you can't see below as you descend so clear in the descent...gentle turns can help you see better.

Seven...at uncontrolled airports be sure you use your radio properly to warn other pilots that you are maneuvering near the airport.


Always remember that air traffic control expects you to look out your windows to avoid traffic no matter what your flight conditions or which rules of flight you are under. Even under Instrument Flight rules we are required to ''see and avoid".

I'm in the USA...what the HECK is a zebra stripe?

oh and air traffic control can help, but YOU are responsible for navigation and the safety of your plane .

I realize you are greatly concerned about avoiding collision...I first learned to fly near san francisco california and boy did I learn how to look for other planes quickly.

But remember, your instructor should be helping you look for 'traffic', and things like "12 o'clock high'' aren't just movies or TV shows.

now, sit at home...watch TV...read a book, listen to the stereo and have a conversation all at the same time...can you do that? you have to keep things moving to make sure you pick up on what is going on...hopefully you will learn.

ask your instructor to teach you how to look for planes...its called scanning for traffic...explain to him that you want the landing light on for traffic avoidance...and if he says NO (unless for bonafide wx situations), you need a new instructor.


oh, and buy the book, ''stick and rudder'' by wolfgang langweische.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 23:52
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VFR Question

Seven
A zebra crossing is a type of pedestrian crossing
Cars can ignore it unless there is a pedestrian waiting to cross , then they are meant to stop , allegedly , maybe !

Britain has an extensive plethora of animal related pedestrian crossings

Pelican , and toucan being others

( no I'm not joking !)
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 00:29
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Hi OP,

You are correct that in the beginning it is a bit overwhelming but little by little the habits creep in. Trust your instructor for doing the things that are not part of the lesson of the day, while you better focus on what you have to train. At the end of the training you will be able to do them all (OK, most) in a proper rapid sequence. You will get used to it and enjoy every bit of flying even more.

Last edited by XLC; 26th Apr 2013 at 00:30.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 00:58
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dear local flight test...thanks for explaining what a zebra crossing is

we call them cross walks in the USA, being in toronto, I'm sure you have come down to see us in the US.

to the original poster...there are street signs in the air, you just have to learn how to see them.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 08:31
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Crash one, you can fly IFR with no radio, unless Mr Salmond has other plans.

Last edited by Croqueteer; 26th Apr 2013 at 08:32.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 08:52
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Constantly looking around the plane is just makes it burdensome rather than enjoyable
Colliding with another aircraft is a tad more burdensome tha enjoyable.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 09:17
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Don't forget the "big sky - small aircraft" theory.

That helps a lot, although you have to be a lot more observant near VFR choke points, like for example, the north-east corner of Bournemouth's zone.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 09:29
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Constantly looking around the plane is just makes it burdensome rather than enjoyable.
One the physical aspects of flying are well lodged in that part of your brain (similar to the skills needed to drive a car), you will have more capactity to look out while enjoying the flight. And yes it should be about enjoying the flying, and what's around you.

As you get more experienced you can get an IMC Rating, or an IR(R) as it is due to be called hopefully, and then when the weather / visibility is poor, you may have the chance to get above the clouds where it is much smoother and 90% of the other GA aircraft will not present. Plus in VFR below the clouds you can try and make good use of a 'Traffic Service' from ATC so they can help look out as well, and / or get one of the comercially available traffic warning systems to also help you.

If you like driving cars, or walking around busy cities, like flying you cant just enable an autopilot / cruise control and do what you want without having to look what dangers are around you.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 10:22
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Don't worry about it one lesson in.
Everything is new. You need about 80% of your available brain power just to take in what's involved in (learning to) handle the aircraft. There's a lot to learn. More, I think, than driving a car.

After several lessons, control will start to come a bit more naturally -like balance on a bicycle, you just suddenly start to 'get it' - and the job of including a good lookout as the major part of what should become a constant scan will become less burdensome.
[edit] At the early stages of learning, in fact any time your instructor is present, he/she will have quite a strong interest in keeping a good lookout for traffic. That's not to say "don't bother'; it's to say ''don't be paranoid about your inability to effectively do so."

Last edited by Tarq57; 26th Apr 2013 at 10:24.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 11:19
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Originally Posted by sevenstrokeroll
speak to your instructor about the hemispheric rule for details
baz,

Over here this is known as the semicircular rule AND you probably won't have to worry about it (except for your written exams).

The one to look up is the Quadrantal Rule - which will be far more relvant to the flying you will be doing.

Originally Posted by baz76
you are focusing more on trying to avoid collision rather than learning other things?
As many others have said you should discuss this with your instructor.
While he (the instructor) will certainly want to encourage a good lookout there are times when you (the student) need to focus entirely on flying the aeroplane - at such times I would expect the instructor to say something like "for the next xx minutes I will be responsible for lookout".

OC619
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 12:40
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You will be busy all the time when flying. My instructor used to say,
"If you are doing nothing for two minutes you have forgotten something."

D.O.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 13:07
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Crash one, you can fly IFR with no radio, unless Mr Salmond has other plans.
Absolutely, and according to other threads regarding CAS busts you can fly VFR with your eyes shut.
I also was not comparing flying to driving a car. I said it will eventually become as natural as driving a car. There is a difference.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 13:28
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No, Crash one, You cannot fly VFR with your eyes shut! Being near your age, I too am afflicted by probably similar probs as you, but keep cheerful! PS In the RAF my nickname was "Jock"
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 13:38
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There are similarities with learning to drive. Remember when you could not even steer in a straight line? All that frantic over correction etc?

Do you think about it now when you drive? I doubt it.

Flying will be just as overwhelming to start with. First you have problems with basic stick & rudder, then takeoffs, then landing etc etc but after a while you won't even remember what the fuss was about.

But lookout is an absolutely essential habit which you do need to try to learn from day one. That's why your instructor will be very keen for you to fly by aircraft attitude and not instruments.

Don't worry, it'll all come together (as the actress said to the bishop)
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 14:33
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No, Crash one, You cannot fly VFR with your eyes shut! Being near your age, I too am afflicted by probably similar probs as you, but keep cheerful! PS In the RAF my nickname was "Jock"
Yes you can, it's Vis flight RULES, not See & Avoid rules.
I'm an exiled English from Billingshurst, My nickname up here was "English Git". Now referred to as "Deef old bastard" & I wore the darker shade of blue, you know, the Senior Service.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 15:39
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Touche Crash 1. I've had a neaters or three on The Ark and Victorious, not to mention dropping your mail on the oil blockade.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 19:03
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I was 2yrs on the Ark & 2yrs on Eagle. Happy days. Never fancied Victorious since we watched it in Biscay, Guys hanging onto ringbolts on the deck to stay aboard. Bloody thing would roll on wet grass! We were flying a/c at the time.
I left just before they did away with the Tot, Nothing like a few wets & then afternoon watch on the flight deck. I was Crash crew.
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