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Flying Microlight on PPL

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Flying Microlight on PPL

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Old 7th Apr 2013, 10:30
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Flying Microlight on PPL

Anyone know if this is allowed or do I need to bolt an extra rating on to my EASA PPL?

Apologies if this has come up already, I don't have the time to do a search of all the threads.
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Old 7th Apr 2013, 10:54
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Currently you can in theory fly it on your EASA PPL with no additional training.

But I would strongly advise that you have some with a weightshift.

It has be know for very experienced SEP pilots to jump in an have a shot.

The ones I know it didn't end in tears but did require a change of underpants when they eventually got it back on the ground.
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Old 7th Apr 2013, 10:57
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I read a report once of a very experienced 3-axis instructor who, on jumping into a weightshift for the first time, took off, had engine failure, pushed instead of pulled, stalled, both killed. I think it was at Long Marston early '90s.
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Old 7th Apr 2013, 11:13
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Seems very strange they don't put down weightshift as a mandatory differences training to be honest.
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Old 7th Apr 2013, 12:08
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Anyone know if this is allowed or do I need to bolt an extra rating on to my EASA PPL?
See CAP804:

3.13 Exercising the privileges on Microlight aeroplanes on the basis of an SEP(Land)Class Rating

The holder of a UK issued licence or any Part-FCL licence with an SEP rating, may, subject to differences training on the appropriate class with a suitably qualified instructor, exercise the privileges of their licence on microlight aircraft. However, any experience gained in microlight aircraft cannot be counted towards the flying experience necessary to maintain the full SEP or TMG privileges.
This also applies to the LAPL(A):

1.7 An LAPL(A) does not have an SEP rating, but does have SEP privileges endorsed, therefore may be rendered valid for Microlight aeroplanes, subject to satisfying the above (differences training) requirement.

Seems very strange they don't put down weightshift as a mandatory differences training to be honest.
They do, but it's poorly worded in CAP804:

3.11.2 Microlight pilots wishing to convert between weightshift and 3-axis microlight control systems, or to a microlight with more than one engine, shall undertake differences training given by a flight instructor entitled to instruct on the microlight aeroplane on which instruction is being given. The training must be completed, recorded in the pilotís personal flying log book and endorsed and signed by the instructor conducting the differences training.
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Old 7th Apr 2013, 12:33
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Just been to look at a small aerodromo north of Madrid and had a chat with one of the instructors there.

Seems like there is some admin to do in order to get flying the Tecnam P96 here in spain on a UK PPL.
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Old 7th Apr 2013, 21:17
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BTW.

There are plenty of three axis microlights too (still need a bit of training after GA).
So why do the above correspondents jump to conclusions, don't they know what's what ?

mike hallam.
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Old 7th Apr 2013, 22:36
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Seems very strange they don't put down weightshift as a mandatory differences training to be honest.
That would have required a Law Change that had the potential to open a bag of worms which the CAA did not wish to disturb. As there were no major safety issues they left well alone, but did place additional requirements on later licences. Remember, initially no licence was required at all to fly a Microlight!

Seems like there is some admin to do in order to get flying the Tecnam P96 here in Spain on a UK PPL.
A number of European States have entirely separate arrangements for microlights, in France they have a Microlight Licence so you need to check locally.
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Old 8th Apr 2013, 13:12
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There is no direct link in France between SEP and microlights,(any category) but as there is no minimum requirement for the microlight licence and a PPL exempts you from the written papers it isn't a big problem. Declaration of start of training to the DGAC, enough flying to satisfy your microlight instructor, test. Job done.
Once you have one category any of the others can be done by differences training and test.

Microlight to SEP is less easy. No concessions, do the 45 hour minimum, writtens, x/c and test as if you have never flown at all. But in fact most people who do that get their licence in the minimum time, so there is some practical advantage.

A UK microlight pilot coming to France would not have any problems, except maybe doing the radio licence (which is not obligatory, but useful if you want to do any touring)

The french microlight licence is for life, with a GP medical required (once) only if you wish personal accident cover through the FFPLUM. It's not required by the DGAC.
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Old 8th Apr 2013, 20:46
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However, any experience gained in microlight aircraft cannot be counted towards the flying experience necessary to maintain the full SEP or TMG privileges.
Great! That blows the Tecnam P92 and that aerodrome out of the water then. I wanted to maintain my hours flying that aircraft. Awesome little aerodrome as well.

How is that right? How is the experience of flight in a Tecnam in no way the same as that in a C172?

Truely thankful for you pointing this out by the way. The CAP804 is a pain to navigate.

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Old 9th Apr 2013, 16:19
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ref this bit --

However, any experience gained in microlight aircraft cannot be counted towards the flying experience necessary to maintain the full SEP or TMG privileges.

AOPA are pushing EASA and CAA for changes, so that some hours flown on microlights count towards maintaing SEP/TMG privileges.

once EASA get around to sorting it out....
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Old 17th Nov 2013, 10:54
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madrid flying school

Originally Posted by Padge View Post
Just been to look at a small aerodromo north of Madrid and had a chat with one of the instructors there.
Hi Padge, I'm looking for a flying a school in Madrid. Would you mind telling me which school you're referring to?
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Old 17th Nov 2013, 16:38
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A thought or two.

(1) Basically the only thing close to a European consensus about microlights is the definition (and that is still a bit tenuous). CAP804 applies to the UK only in this regard, and any other country will have its own rules.

(2) P92 versus C172. Both are perfectly good safe flying machines, but the speeds and attitudes are somewhat different - a shorthouse like me can actually see over the P92 instrument panel for a start. The Technam will need about a quarter of the runway to take-off or land that the C172 does, will have a similar climb rate, then be slightly slower in the cruise. To land, microlights bleed speed off much quicker, and hence need a somewhat different style in the approach and landing to a heavier aeroplane like the Cessna. Basic airmanship and the fun of flying don't change of course, but conversion training in both directions, regardless of legalities, is a survival necessity.

(3) As a general rule, assume differences training when going down in weight, and a skill test when going up.

G
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 18:21
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I have a question (hopefully BEagle can answer)

I have a NPPL with (M) and (SSEA) and a JAA PPL SEP

My renewal is up soon but I fly various aircraft (mostly my RV8) but I also fly my microlight which is a twin (it's also turbine powered)

Now I can only legally fly it under my NPPL (M) as its a twin and I dont have a PPL twin or turbine rating and the (M) has no restrictions on number of power plants or type.

I have been keeping my NPPL up to date and signed off seperately even though they are also on my JAA PPL as ratings, but what happens when I get the new licence?

Sorry for the dumb question but none of my local examiners can answer that.

Cheers
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 18:36
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What type is that? I'm struggling to think of any twin turbine microlight. Twins yes, very small turbine twin yes, but a microlight?

?
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 18:44
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A Colomban Cri-Cri, perhaps? But I am not sure whether that one classifies as a microlight.
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 20:12
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...ure%3Dyoutu.be
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 22:46
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C42,

Simple. You tick the box on the JAR to EASA licence form that says you also want to keep/acquire an NPPL.

Last edited by xrayalpha; 19th Nov 2013 at 22:47. Reason: OK... seen the video!
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 10:55
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I thought that on that aircraft the engines would be so close to the aircraft centre line that it could be flown under an SEP rating. In the UK a Cri-Cri can be flown with an SEP rating...

Don't know about turbine though. You have a distinct shortage of pistons...
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 17:36
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sounds to easy! Im sure its not that simple, goes against all these Civil Servants believe in!

well don on the video patowalker
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