Top 5 things that could knacker you up VFR touring in Europe?
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Top 5 things that could knacker you up VFR touring in Europe?
I am planning on doing a tour of Europe as soon as the weather allows, the journey is Forfar, Lydd, Leverkusen, Prague, Venice, Milan, Cannes, Montpilier, Bordeux, Cherbourg, Blackpoo,l Forfar (granted Forfar does not sound as grand as the rest, but hey ho) I have made up a flight plan in skydemon in segments, my choice of fields have taken into consideration the following:
*Large enough and towered that the controllers speak English and have Avgas.
*But not to large that I can limit the “handling fees" and hopefully wont get charged like a wounded buffalo for the landing fees or mixing it up to much with the big boys.
*Avoided for the most part the Alps and mountainous terrain.
* Limited the daily segments to appx. 3 hours of flying
I have spend many hours pouring over the plans and have tried come up with a route to that is a good compromise between terrain, airspace and sights worth seeing and feel I am getting to the end of the planning part and wonder if anyone would throw me some tips/advice bearing in mind that I have done several spamcan trips from the west to east coast of the US but have never flown on the continent so if we could gear the points to flying in Germany, Czech, Italy and France etc and any pitfalls i should plan for. I,d appreciate it
*Large enough and towered that the controllers speak English and have Avgas.
*But not to large that I can limit the “handling fees" and hopefully wont get charged like a wounded buffalo for the landing fees or mixing it up to much with the big boys.
*Avoided for the most part the Alps and mountainous terrain.
* Limited the daily segments to appx. 3 hours of flying
I have spend many hours pouring over the plans and have tried come up with a route to that is a good compromise between terrain, airspace and sights worth seeing and feel I am getting to the end of the planning part and wonder if anyone would throw me some tips/advice bearing in mind that I have done several spamcan trips from the west to east coast of the US but have never flown on the continent so if we could gear the points to flying in Germany, Czech, Italy and France etc and any pitfalls i should plan for. I,d appreciate it
Last edited by piperboy84; 2nd Apr 2013 at 19:57.
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Don't worry too much about the landing/handling fees on the mainland. Nowhere near as extortionate as they are here in the UK.
Take time to look at each AIP and make sure that you know where the D's,P's and R's are and how to check Notam info. The French aren't too forgiving if you bust ZIT's - large fines loom, allegedly.
Sounds fun.
Enjoy
DD
Take time to look at each AIP and make sure that you know where the D's,P's and R's are and how to check Notam info. The French aren't too forgiving if you bust ZIT's - large fines loom, allegedly.
Sounds fun.
Enjoy
DD
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First of all - enjoy, sounds like a great trip!
Doing something like that VFR (and I have), the biggest factor invariably is the wx. Plan the trip with sufficient slack to allow for a few days on the ground.
In general, you can expect a proper FIS (pretty much the same as the Flight Following you will be familiar with) on the continent, ATC are *much* better than in the UK, that also goes for the various transits you may require. The French seem especially obliging in this respect.
The only part of your trip that may be a bit tricky is the Italian part.
To get there from Prague, you will have to cross the Alps. Check the wx and fly this as early in the morning as possible, to avoid the noon/afternoon buildups. For someone not familiar with the area, flying the low-level valley routes is probably not a good idea, so stay high.
In Italy, make sure you can get Avgas (or tanker enough not to need it!). Have a good look at the VFR corridors / rules in the Venice area and be prepared to stay low (from memory below 2000 agl) across pretty much the entire northern plains.
Doing something like that VFR (and I have), the biggest factor invariably is the wx. Plan the trip with sufficient slack to allow for a few days on the ground.
In general, you can expect a proper FIS (pretty much the same as the Flight Following you will be familiar with) on the continent, ATC are *much* better than in the UK, that also goes for the various transits you may require. The French seem especially obliging in this respect.
The only part of your trip that may be a bit tricky is the Italian part.
To get there from Prague, you will have to cross the Alps. Check the wx and fly this as early in the morning as possible, to avoid the noon/afternoon buildups. For someone not familiar with the area, flying the low-level valley routes is probably not a good idea, so stay high.
In Italy, make sure you can get Avgas (or tanker enough not to need it!). Have a good look at the VFR corridors / rules in the Venice area and be prepared to stay low (from memory below 2000 agl) across pretty much the entire northern plains.
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[quoteTake time to look at each AIP and make sure that you know where the D's,P's and R's are and how to check Notam info][/quote]
In addition to the charts and having the AIP i was planning on taking the IPAD with the garmin GLO running the skydemon program and watching my progress realtime for airspace and getting updated notams etc, I have a panel mounted garmin 496 that will have the skydemon route fed into it and will have my passenger keep an eye on the duplacte on the ipad. A bit of belt and braces approach that is probably over the top but i have it so may as well use it
In addition to the charts and having the AIP i was planning on taking the IPAD with the garmin GLO running the skydemon program and watching my progress realtime for airspace and getting updated notams etc, I have a panel mounted garmin 496 that will have the skydemon route fed into it and will have my passenger keep an eye on the duplacte on the ipad. A bit of belt and braces approach that is probably over the top but i have it so may as well use it
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To get there from Prague, you will have to cross the Alps
Top 5 things that could knacker you up VFR touring in Europe?
http://www.airports.de/component/option,com_mtree/task,viewlink/link_id,246/lang,de/
Leverkusen is very close to Cologne Airspace, but normaly its no Problem, helps to give them a call.
Enjoy your trip
Leverkusen is very close to Cologne Airspace, but normaly its no Problem, helps to give them a call.
Enjoy your trip
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that big valley right down to the Italian coast
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May I suggest, rather than Bordeaux (LFBD), to consider Soulac (LFDK), Royan LFCY or the island of Oleron (LFDP).
Bordeaux is a too large airport, you will loose lots of time due to security, waiting for refueling since the liners have priority, and pay a high handling fee.
The 3 airfields I quote (there are others) are really nice (and cheap) for GA and
they also have reasonably priced avgas.
LFDK is a nice small town with lots of summer vacationers, you will spend a nice evening (or a day more.....) and profit from the beach and the Atlantic.
You can put a tent close to your plane if thats your lifestyle.
LFCY will put you in the environnment of parachute's jumper's paradise.
LFDP (with its 1km long and extremely large grass RWY, and I think no landing fees at all) will provide you the special atmosphere of an island.
Have a nice flight
Bordeaux is a too large airport, you will loose lots of time due to security, waiting for refueling since the liners have priority, and pay a high handling fee.
The 3 airfields I quote (there are others) are really nice (and cheap) for GA and
they also have reasonably priced avgas.
LFDK is a nice small town with lots of summer vacationers, you will spend a nice evening (or a day more.....) and profit from the beach and the Atlantic.
You can put a tent close to your plane if thats your lifestyle.
LFCY will put you in the environnment of parachute's jumper's paradise.
LFDP (with its 1km long and extremely large grass RWY, and I think no landing fees at all) will provide you the special atmosphere of an island.
Have a nice flight
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One thing that you do not find anywhere in the German AIP: It is forbidden to land outside the aerodrome operating hours in Germany, as German authorities feel that it would be unsafe without anyone on the ground on the radio... 
We found that out once after landing somewhere during the Mittagspause...
So if you use the Jeppesen VFR charts, always read the text section about aerodrome hours of operation, since they are not written on the aerodrome charts themselves. And plan your flights accordingly.
In order to find out about such limitations in advance, you need to study the "Luftverkehrsgesetz", so you need to speak German very well - since this fact is also well hidden inside that law. Welcome to Europe!
And safe flights!
We found that out once after landing somewhere during the Mittagspause...
So if you use the Jeppesen VFR charts, always read the text section about aerodrome hours of operation, since they are not written on the aerodrome charts themselves. And plan your flights accordingly.
In order to find out about such limitations in advance, you need to study the "Luftverkehrsgesetz", so you need to speak German very well - since this fact is also well hidden inside that law. Welcome to Europe!
And safe flights!
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I have been working on this flight plan in 8 segments (a flight plan for each day of the journey day) every night for the last couple of weeks and maybe i am not seeing the forest for the trees here but it is hell trying to stitch myself thru some of that airspace around the Med in the south of france and finding the right fields, if I wasn't a more patient guy I would be sorely tempted to forget about going near big cities and airports and just stay out R's + P's, fly low and land in farmers fields at the end of each day offering them some cash for the landing fee and a ride into town for autogas and sleep under the wing with a bottle of the local finest !!!
Right, enough dreaming and back to this friggin flightplan
Right, enough dreaming and back to this friggin flightplan
If I wasn't a more patient guy I would be sorely tempted to forget about going near big cities and airports and just stay out R's + P's, fly low and land in farmers fields at the end of each day offering them some cash for the landing fee and a ride into town for autogas and sleep under the wing with a bottle of the local finest !!! Right, enough dreaming and back to this friggin flightplan
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One thing that you do not find anywhere in the German AIP: It is forbidden to land outside the aerodrome operating hours in Germany, as German authorities feel that it would be unsafe without anyone on the ground on the radio...
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The southern French Airspace looks very complicated, indeed. Yet in reality you will see it will be most simply for Cannes and Montpelier. You will just fly along
the cost line (in fact ATC may well ask you to do exactly that and nothing else),
enjoy one of the most beautiful scenary in the world and have almost guaranteed excellent VFR conditions. You will use the ATC frequencies that are called "SIV" (service d'information en vol = flight information service) that may either keep you (with an assigned squak) or occasinally transfer you to "approach" and take you back when you have crossed the airspace of a major airport. All ATC speak very reasonable english, just make the effort on your side to pronounce clearly and slow down (compared to ORD).
Actually, French (government issued) appoach and airport charts are available for free (you mention ipad, there is is free applet both for VFR and IFR charts). "iVAC" and "IAC France", repectively.
Once you will be in southwestern France (Bordeaux region) you will again have easy navigation along the shore line for quite a while, however the more you go north the more often the weather can play tricks, and you may get grounded for a day. But more often than not the evenings are fine and it gets dark really late. There is no issue with ATC required at an airport to land (as there is in Germany). You just use the unicom freq like in the US (english self position reports, clear and slow).
the cost line (in fact ATC may well ask you to do exactly that and nothing else),
enjoy one of the most beautiful scenary in the world and have almost guaranteed excellent VFR conditions. You will use the ATC frequencies that are called "SIV" (service d'information en vol = flight information service) that may either keep you (with an assigned squak) or occasinally transfer you to "approach" and take you back when you have crossed the airspace of a major airport. All ATC speak very reasonable english, just make the effort on your side to pronounce clearly and slow down (compared to ORD).
Actually, French (government issued) appoach and airport charts are available for free (you mention ipad, there is is free applet both for VFR and IFR charts). "iVAC" and "IAC France", repectively.
Once you will be in southwestern France (Bordeaux region) you will again have easy navigation along the shore line for quite a while, however the more you go north the more often the weather can play tricks, and you may get grounded for a day. But more often than not the evenings are fine and it gets dark really late. There is no issue with ATC required at an airport to land (as there is in Germany). You just use the unicom freq like in the US (english self position reports, clear and slow).
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Thre last time we flew into Bordeaux it was ok - compulsory handling but they were very good - although cheaper than Uk handling, it was an expensive visit. If you are looking for English speaking towers then La Rochelle is very accessible - although the tourist offerings are different.
As Level100 says the south coast of France looks difficult, but so long as you are happy flying low along the coast it is terrific - just get the reporting points into the GPS before you get there.
Notams in France are getting a little like the UK - lots of them and if you have to divert quite a lot of restrictions on 'non-based aircraft'. Worthwhile having some likely boltholes prepared. Again in France check the danger area and low level routes on the offical site - it takes away a lot of the red stuff on the chart.
As for Italy? Well, talk to someone at the airports and make sure you have ppr and they actually have Avgas....
Belgium and Germany - organised and easy to transit and land at - given the warnings about opening hours. Local holidays can be awkward in all of these places - as you are picking larger airfields that means security and admin - who are often not there on holidays or when the LOCOs are not flying.
Other than that maintenance and parts are usually not bad - so long as you do not have unusual sized tyres or other stuff....
All you then need is the weather!
As Level100 says the south coast of France looks difficult, but so long as you are happy flying low along the coast it is terrific - just get the reporting points into the GPS before you get there.
Notams in France are getting a little like the UK - lots of them and if you have to divert quite a lot of restrictions on 'non-based aircraft'. Worthwhile having some likely boltholes prepared. Again in France check the danger area and low level routes on the offical site - it takes away a lot of the red stuff on the chart.
As for Italy? Well, talk to someone at the airports and make sure you have ppr and they actually have Avgas....
Belgium and Germany - organised and easy to transit and land at - given the warnings about opening hours. Local holidays can be awkward in all of these places - as you are picking larger airfields that means security and admin - who are often not there on holidays or when the LOCOs are not flying.
Other than that maintenance and parts are usually not bad - so long as you do not have unusual sized tyres or other stuff....
All you then need is the weather!
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If at Leverkusen PPR or opening times are an issue, Essen/Muelheim (EDLE) might be an alternative.
The Cologne/Dusseldorf airspace is a bit complex, but a bit of awareness should do the trick.
The Cologne/Dusseldorf airspace is a bit complex, but a bit of awareness should do the trick.
