GA in an independent Scotland
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dp - I don't think the English invaded them, both became friends 300 years ago and decided to be one happy club. Since then, England has been kindly sending taxes North to keep them afloat.
As for the oil, it's in International waters and it was English money and know how that paid for it to be dug up, offering them them employment in the process. It's English oil and the Scottish claim to it, on the basis of proximity is as without merit as Argentina's claim to the Falklands for the same reason.
I don't think there's any just cause to fund another nation after the split. Everyone knows that if you don't have any money, you just join the Euro, bust your economy then go begging to the French and Germans. Simples!
As for the oil, it's in International waters and it was English money and know how that paid for it to be dug up, offering them them employment in the process. It's English oil and the Scottish claim to it, on the basis of proximity is as without merit as Argentina's claim to the Falklands for the same reason.
I don't think there's any just cause to fund another nation after the split. Everyone knows that if you don't have any money, you just join the Euro, bust your economy then go begging to the French and Germans. Simples!
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It would work if they get the oil, but when that runs out, some decades from now, the place will sink into a hole, with massive emigration, and much of the population will be on the English council house waiting list (along with Romania, allegedly...).
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Let me be clear first, I have no desire to have s
Scotland as an independent state, it just doesn't seem to be a good thing to me. However there's an awful lot of rubbish being talked about
.
Why is it that people seem to be fixated on oil?
There is oil, it's worth a lot but it is not the only thing going for Scotland and a great deal of the tax generated in Scotland by the oil comes not from the oil itself but from the businesses based in Scotland and the workers who live there - that aren't going anywhere. In fact I rather suspect, as a much smaller country Scotland would be far more successful in collecting taxes from certain businesses that the UK have been as a whole (Amazon, Starbucks, Ikea et al)
There are financial institutions who are very successful indeed, not owned in any way by the tax payer that are 100% Scottish.
There are legal firms who already make a killing from the different legal systems. They will do very well from a split.
There is Whiskey which is worth a lot more than you think.
not to mention tourism and other things, like Golf (although I can't think why
)
It's also quite a pretty place
My understanding is that we are one of the worlds largest exporter of carbon fiber (although I could be wrong). And it seems quite popular.
We have high tech and drug companies who wouldn't go anywhere.
There are excellent educational facilities a few of whom would thrive without the shackles that the big westminster government put on them.
It is not by any means an unattractive place to live if it was it's own state - but I'm not convinced there is a compelling reason to separate.
There are several countries of similar size population wise who do very well but just because that's true it doesn't provide a good reason to split.
There was no invasion that precipitated the act of Union that bound the countries to be Great Britain. It's not like people came along with big sticks and knocked a flag in the ground.
Things that bug me about it all,
The rest of the UK should be voting on allowing any part to split from it, sadly this would actually significantly improve Scotland's chances of independence. But just because I don't agree with that perspective it doesn't mean it's not the right way to do it.
I kind of object to paying for 3 or 4 layers of government, they don't even do this in the USA. It's enormously wasteful. The Westminster government should definitely shrink to compensate for the fact that there are governments in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
I wonder why it is that it is believed that only institutionally racist people want independence, yes there are people like that but I know of some extremely bright well read people who are pro independence, I am neither erudite nor pro independence but I still find it a little insulting. Alex Salmond despite his position on the whole topic, is in fact an excellent parliamentarian and one of the few politicians around it seems that is interested in saying what he actually thinks for the benefit of the people he is speaking for. He's amazingly clever, you'd be making a mistake getting into an arguement with him, a fact learned by the previous government in Westminster and they were bloody glad when he left for Scotland.
The CAA in England is hobbled by EASA, Scotlands own CAA would probably be hobbled in the same way but to a lesser degree because it would be so small that you would know everyone there and you couldn't be lost under a pile of paper, or in a queue of calls for 50 minutes just to get an answer to an email you sent to them 3 weeks ago. This is actually one thing I would greatly desire, I've witnessed first hand how much better a small CAA works. The service levels could not be any worse than they are now.
Scotland as an independent state, it just doesn't seem to be a good thing to me. However there's an awful lot of rubbish being talked about
.Why is it that people seem to be fixated on oil?
There is oil, it's worth a lot but it is not the only thing going for Scotland and a great deal of the tax generated in Scotland by the oil comes not from the oil itself but from the businesses based in Scotland and the workers who live there - that aren't going anywhere
. In fact I rather suspect, as a much smaller country Scotland would be far more successful in collecting taxes from certain businesses that the UK have been as a whole (Amazon, Starbucks, Ikea et al)There are financial institutions who are very successful indeed, not owned in any way by the tax payer that are 100% Scottish.
There are legal firms who already make a killing from the different legal systems. They will do very well from a split.
There is Whiskey which is worth a lot more than you think.
not to mention tourism and other things, like Golf (although I can't think why
)It's also quite a pretty place
My understanding is that we are one of the worlds largest exporter of carbon fiber (although I could be wrong). And it seems quite popular.
We have high tech and drug companies who wouldn't go anywhere.
There are excellent educational facilities a few of whom would thrive without the shackles that the big westminster government put on them.
It is not by any means an unattractive place to live if it was it's own state - but I'm not convinced there is a compelling reason to separate.
There are several countries of similar size population wise who do very well but just because that's true it doesn't provide a good reason to split.
There was no invasion that precipitated the act of Union that bound the countries to be Great Britain. It's not like people came along with big sticks and knocked a flag in the ground
.Things that bug me about it all,
The rest of the UK should be voting on allowing any part to split from it, sadly this would actually significantly improve Scotland's chances of independence. But just because I don't agree with that perspective it doesn't mean it's not the right way to do it.
I kind of object to paying for 3 or 4 layers of government, they don't even do this in the USA. It's enormously wasteful. The Westminster government should definitely shrink to compensate for the fact that there are governments in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
I wonder why it is that it is believed that only institutionally racist people want independence, yes there are people like that but I know of some extremely bright well read people who are pro independence, I am neither erudite nor pro independence but I still find it a little insulting. Alex Salmond despite his position on the whole topic, is in fact an excellent parliamentarian and one of the few politicians around it seems that is interested in saying what he actually thinks for the benefit of the people he is speaking for. He's amazingly clever, you'd be making a mistake getting into an arguement with him, a fact learned by the previous government in Westminster and they were bloody glad when he left for Scotland.
The CAA in England is hobbled by EASA, Scotlands own CAA would probably be hobbled in the same way but to a lesser degree because it would be so small that you would know everyone there and you couldn't be lost under a pile of paper, or in a queue of calls for 50 minutes just to get an answer to an email you sent to them 3 weeks ago. This is actually one thing I would greatly desire, I've witnessed first hand how much better a small CAA works. The service levels could not be any worse than they are now.
In the USA, I am sure California is massively subsidising the rest, especially e.g. Utah.
I kind of object to paying for 3 or 4 layers of government, they don't even do this in the USA.
That explained, I can assure you that Utah government is a great deal more financially sound than that of California or the Feds! Decadence does not breed financial solvency, regardless of economic scale.
http://monetarilyspeaking.com/wp-con...by-wells-f.jpg
If I were in Scotland I would be attracted to independence for only one reason - the possibility to leave the EU.
Last edited by Silvaire1; 13th Mar 2013 at 21:26.
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Dan the Weegie
fer the love of God, the blessed drink made in Scotland is whisky, not that horrible whiskey made in other countries to be left nameless!
If independence does come, I'm sure misspelling whisky will become a criminal offence!
fer the love of God, the blessed drink made in Scotland is whisky, not that horrible whiskey made in other countries to be left nameless!
If independence does come, I'm sure misspelling whisky will become a criminal offence!
Last edited by astir 8; 14th Mar 2013 at 08:15.
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It is not going to be possible for either Scotland or the UK to secede from the EU, despite the huge amount of rhetoric around it.
Astir it's lucky Scotland isn't going to be independent then otherwise MJ will be in the clink for years for a variety of crimes against spelling and grammar, not just for being a sausage of the gentleman variety.
Astir it's lucky Scotland isn't going to be independent then
otherwise MJ will be in the clink for years for a variety of crimes against spelling and grammar, not just for being a sausage of the gentleman variety.
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Where as you will be in the clink for sexual assault/rape of runways across multiple countries.
Remember to ask for the 1000's of other landings to be taken into consideration when they sentence you for the token one.
Remember to ask for the 1000's of other landings to be taken into consideration when they sentence you for the token one.
Last edited by mad_jock; 14th Mar 2013 at 10:51.
The Act of Independence will be signed on Fantasy Island. At the half time break in the stadium on the same day Swansea beat Barca 5-0 in the Champions League final. I will have had a hat-trick.
So it's not that unlikely then!
CG
So it's not that unlikely then!
CG
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I don't see the harm in the English CAA continuing to administer aviation matters for an independent Scotland.
After all, there will be so many other English agencies/companies doing the same. The tax revenues from working Scots (there aren't many of them, are there?) are hardly going to sustain the infrastructure paid for, built and maintained at English expense over generations.
After all, there will be so many other English agencies/companies doing the same. The tax revenues from working Scots (there aren't many of them, are there?) are hardly going to sustain the infrastructure paid for, built and maintained at English expense over generations.
1) Cost - these services would have to be paid for, could you seriously imagine that England would continue to burden itself with costs for areas of activity which it is not longer concerned with, without any recompense? This money would be taken from the new Scottish Governments coffers, meaning the government would have a deficit for a service it could easily handle itself.
2) Related to cost, the Scots would never accept any figure that the English CAA would quote for administering their aviation matters - I mean, do you share costs based on number of airfields, annual movements, size of the respective airspaces or number of pilots?
3) Once they have their independence, why would they want to employ a "southerner" rather than a fellow Scot?
4) Imagine the outcry.... it would be like England going to France and asking them to control our civil aviation...
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The English invade Scotland,
Plus just over 400 years ago a Scots King became the King of England, so it's not quite as clear cut as you think.
Edit: plus most of Scotland live and work in England...
Shall we send them back?
Last edited by thing; 14th Mar 2013 at 23:01.
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OK,
Scotland and aviation:
Revenue streams:
Fees for aircraft registration etc. Could be more since there must be a reason for Isle of Mna, Jersey, San Marino to get involved?
Fees for navigation: Iceland gets a good income from transatlantic nav fees, since even though it costs more in fuel to route through their area, it saves a fortune on charges. An opportunity for Scotland there too - if my sources in NATS are true.
APD fees: opportunity to reduce those, so "reduction" in income there, but then might create benefit in more tourist traffic. Perhaps "neutral" with independence
Use as a hub: strategic location on edge of Atlantic and "fog-free" Prestwick becoming more and more irrelevant with modern equipment and longer range aircraft: loss of revenue there, but that is not due to independence.
Fuel duty etc: A chance, only because of a change of government, that we might get cheaper Avgas? After all, the story of BAe flight training at Prestwick, and the flight training at Scone, might resonate better with "local" politicians?
Those are thoughts that come to mind right away.
Now, of course, we could look at trying to get them added to the existing "devolved" powers. That has happened in Northern Ireland with APD.
Might be worth reminding ourselves what those are, simply because "independence" will not change that.
Scotland already has a unique legal system, and police force.
Scotland already has a unique education system.
Scotland has unique building and planning regulations: tell me about them!
Transport is also a Scottish function: so ScotRail is tendered for by Holyrood. Roads and bridges etc are decided by Holyrood.
I am sure there are more, but I am no politician.
So with independence, none of that will change.
What do we have on a UK basis:
Diplomacy: do we need many embassies etc nowadays. Canadians (with a very healthy economy) are looking at sharing facilities etc.
Military: who is going to invade? Perhaps we would be better spending money on ships and aircraft that can provide medical aid to others (ie like Orbis etc) So no job losses, no spending cuts, just different priorities?
Taxes: VAT, Capital Gains Tax, Corporation Tax. Well, we could be like Ireland and attract Google with lower taxes? So might be an advantage as independent.
Border control: well, that is a joke anyway. Check out Surinder Singh and the Lille Loophole. Or the closure of the border post at Stranraer because it is an "internal frontier" - except that there is no border control in Ireland!
Gosh. Taking control of these is really really important, stops me from sleeping at night..... not.
Independence will make me £200 a year worse off, or £200 a year better off? Who cares: it is not even a packet of fags a week!
It is really all a matter of heart, and not head.
It will neither be the end of the world or the start of a brave new one.
Scotland and aviation:
Revenue streams:
Fees for aircraft registration etc. Could be more since there must be a reason for Isle of Mna, Jersey, San Marino to get involved?
Fees for navigation: Iceland gets a good income from transatlantic nav fees, since even though it costs more in fuel to route through their area, it saves a fortune on charges. An opportunity for Scotland there too - if my sources in NATS are true.
APD fees: opportunity to reduce those, so "reduction" in income there, but then might create benefit in more tourist traffic. Perhaps "neutral" with independence
Use as a hub: strategic location on edge of Atlantic and "fog-free" Prestwick becoming more and more irrelevant with modern equipment and longer range aircraft: loss of revenue there, but that is not due to independence.
Fuel duty etc: A chance, only because of a change of government, that we might get cheaper Avgas? After all, the story of BAe flight training at Prestwick, and the flight training at Scone, might resonate better with "local" politicians?
Those are thoughts that come to mind right away.
Now, of course, we could look at trying to get them added to the existing "devolved" powers. That has happened in Northern Ireland with APD.
Might be worth reminding ourselves what those are, simply because "independence" will not change that.
Scotland already has a unique legal system, and police force.
Scotland already has a unique education system.
Scotland has unique building and planning regulations: tell me about them!
Transport is also a Scottish function: so ScotRail is tendered for by Holyrood. Roads and bridges etc are decided by Holyrood.
I am sure there are more, but I am no politician.
So with independence, none of that will change.
What do we have on a UK basis:
Diplomacy: do we need many embassies etc nowadays. Canadians (with a very healthy economy) are looking at sharing facilities etc.
Military: who is going to invade? Perhaps we would be better spending money on ships and aircraft that can provide medical aid to others (ie like Orbis etc) So no job losses, no spending cuts, just different priorities?
Taxes: VAT, Capital Gains Tax, Corporation Tax. Well, we could be like Ireland and attract Google with lower taxes? So might be an advantage as independent.
Border control: well, that is a joke anyway. Check out Surinder Singh and the Lille Loophole. Or the closure of the border post at Stranraer because it is an "internal frontier" - except that there is no border control in Ireland!
Gosh. Taking control of these is really really important, stops me from sleeping at night..... not.
Independence will make me £200 a year worse off, or £200 a year better off? Who cares: it is not even a packet of fags a week!
It is really all a matter of heart, and not head.
It will neither be the end of the world or the start of a brave new one.
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Four reasons why this will not be allowed to happen.
Look at our resident war criminal, Mr S..., on Channel 4 last night, Rendition, what me????????????Certainly not us..........Might live to regret that.
Anyway, X ray, clever and thoughtful post, and pulled up some stuff I had not even thought of.
Scottish independence, is a heart matter, not a mind matter. I agree with X ray, that when it all settles down, I really do not think it would make much difference financially, given that the UK is totally bust at the moment, and we are all struggling. Maybe, just maybe, we would be better on our own. Never know until we try it. Anyway, I will stay on N-Reg, flying on my dual papers
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Scottish administration generally doing very well and could do better if independent.
And before anyone shoots this down; its an opinion based on facts; not on prejudice and fear
And before anyone shoots this down; its an opinion based on facts; not on prejudice and fear
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A few facts...
Ex-pats can't vote. Scottish nationalism is about letting the people who live in Scotland decide what is best for our future - it doesn't matter if you're "pure" Scottish; if you don't live here you shouldn't have a say in our politics. (to mad_jock)
To jollyrog's remark: "The tax revenues from working Scots (there aren't many of them, are there?) are hardly going to sustain the infrastructure paid for, built and maintained at English expense over generations." - are you having a laugh? Politicians from both the yes and no campaigns have admitted an independent Scotland will fully be able to fund itself. Also, go read some proper sources about the economics of Scotland and the UK before commenting with your tabloid-sourced "facts". Scotland has been running a surplus for a good while - certainly the same cannot be said for the outdated Union of countries as a whole. The savings to be made in an independent Scotland are huge. No trident renewal (£100bn total UK contribution), Westminster (£50m), House of Lords (£100m?), Scottish Office (£10m), Defence (£1bn as Scotland's share - yet more money will be spent in Scotland!). So go read something decent then come back and talk about our economy. And just for the extra, here's some extra info RE "the country that doesny work": Scotland has ~8.5% of UK population, pays 9.9% of UK tax and receives 9.3% of UK spending.
Fellow Scots: read up on the Barnett formula and how it works and you will see that the Tories continual privatisation of England will hurt us VERY badly.
To astir_8: Unfortunately Shetland cannot gain independence due to its size, as per international conventions.
To Thing: RE "sending them back". A lot of 'English' folk live in Scotland too. They're more than welcome. Scottish Nationalism is in no way fascist. Keep the UK that way, old chap
End of rant. Sorry but it just annoys me when people who are clearly ignorant of facts choose to bring up their, as I said, tabloid-sourced nonsense and try to brainwash others with scaremongering as has been done to them.
We will still be friends if/when we become independent, England
To jollyrog's remark: "The tax revenues from working Scots (there aren't many of them, are there?) are hardly going to sustain the infrastructure paid for, built and maintained at English expense over generations." - are you having a laugh? Politicians from both the yes and no campaigns have admitted an independent Scotland will fully be able to fund itself. Also, go read some proper sources about the economics of Scotland and the UK before commenting with your tabloid-sourced "facts". Scotland has been running a surplus for a good while - certainly the same cannot be said for the outdated Union of countries as a whole. The savings to be made in an independent Scotland are huge. No trident renewal (£100bn total UK contribution), Westminster (£50m), House of Lords (£100m?), Scottish Office (£10m), Defence (£1bn as Scotland's share - yet more money will be spent in Scotland!). So go read something decent then come back and talk about our economy. And just for the extra, here's some extra info RE "the country that doesny work": Scotland has ~8.5% of UK population, pays 9.9% of UK tax and receives 9.3% of UK spending.
Fellow Scots: read up on the Barnett formula and how it works and you will see that the Tories continual privatisation of England will hurt us VERY badly.
To astir_8: Unfortunately Shetland cannot gain independence due to its size, as per international conventions.
To Thing: RE "sending them back". A lot of 'English' folk live in Scotland too. They're more than welcome. Scottish Nationalism is in no way fascist. Keep the UK that way, old chap
End of rant. Sorry but it just annoys me when people who are clearly ignorant of facts choose to bring up their, as I said, tabloid-sourced nonsense and try to brainwash others with scaremongering as has been done to them.
We will still be friends if/when we become independent, England
