IR(R) -

[englishal]

Not to labour this subject too long.........what about pvt flying ?

[Pace]

Mystic Meg prediction

Firstly flying with FAA licences in Europe without EASA perefectly legal! at present in all EC Countries! Another BASA in june. Continuation of study of FAA and EASA regs and common ground with idea of simplifying.

Presently dealing with PPL licences which will be in concrete by september!
Excellent progress in that direction!

September moving onto professional licenses!

Nothing will happen until everything is complete so watch this space for a further extension to 2016! No way 2014

Mystic Meg is very accurate and not me

So bets taken and will be honored on 2014 will be dead in the water (sorry air)

Pace

[mad_jock]

Its already law pace.

And as you have already said only a few have got the 2014 extension.

The fact that nobody is actively enforcing it doesn`t change the fact its law.

[Fuji Abound]

What are the consequences of breaking the law?

Leaving aside the insurance aspects, which are only relevant in the event of an accident, if you are caught, can the "authorities" prevent you flying, can they impound the aircraft (I suspect not if owned by a third party and / or the aircraft is flown out by a qualified pilot), can they detain the pilot, or must they issue proceedings and allow the matter to be heard in Court?

What is BALPA's view?

Their recourse might be relevant to how willingly you flout the law.

For me the hassle of finding out is not worth it.

I dont agree with the whole pink diesel issue I referred to earlier and IF the Belgium's only recourse was to take me to court, on principle I would be only too pleased to argue my corner (assume as well the potential fine and costs were not earth shattering) but since they use to be able to impound the vessel that gave them one power to far for me.

[mad_jock]

can they detain the pilot

The french certainly do until any issues are sorted out and fines payed.

[Ellemeet]

I believe there are some thoughts which are not correct.

One has to sperate two things:

When will a country switch over to EasA licensing
&
From what date should a resident of an EASA country also hold an equivalent EASA license for the priveleges he wishes to use.

The adoption date differs but the latest possible opt out date is april 2013. All Member countries have to adopt EaSA licensing by april 2013.

Lapl may be introduced at a later date.

For all of the member countries the date at which you need an EASA license as well is set firmly at 8 april 2014.

Now I believe you can also apply for a validation .. But you can only do this once. This would mean that you can extend till april 2015. However .. I am not entirely sure if this is correct.

[Pace]

So bets taken and will be honored on 2014 will be dead in the water (sorry air)

All the soothsayers bets taken and recorded here at pprune
No more words! Money where mouth is please

Pace

[mad_jock]

Its not really worth betting on if you already have a JAR or EASA license.

Because it really won't effect us.

And to be honest you know perfectly fine that if we are correct there is no way we would take money off you when you can't work.

[Fuji Abound]

Pace

I am not quite certain what the bet is. Is the bet that none of this will come to pass and something will be worked out?

If so you are probably correct - so much of this still seems very fluid, with so many vested interested and lobbying groups.

You only have to recall the IMCr debacle and those on this very forum who said the IMCr was dead in the water and were taking all sorts of bets. I told them it wasnt because I believed it was worth fighting for. There was a petition on the No 10 forum which a few sort to scupper or ridicule and AOPA got the whole thing around there neck before coming to their senses (for a change). Any way the comeuppance was the nay sayers were wrong and the IMCr is here to stay with real progress on the EIR - these things are well worth the fight.

However you better get enough influential people to fight your corner - and there probably are plenty because that is the only way change is brought about. Personally I suspect there are enough EASA policy makers who would still love to see Europe having effective oversight of every pilot operating in its airspace. ( I wish I could say "our" airspace but the policy makers think its theirs ).

[S-Works]

Fuji, the last time I looked the last date you can add an IMCr to a Part FCL license is next April. That hardly looks like you won your battle.

I think Pace is widely over optimistic about this, but only time will tell. However it does not change the situation that he is flying illegally at the moment if operating commercially in a N Reg aircraft without a reciprocal EASA requirement as required by law.

[Fuji Abound]

Bose be careful you are close to making another dubious prediction .

[S-Works]

Bose be careful you are close to making another dubious prediction .

I am a lot closer to the issue than you give me credit for. Whilst I agree there are still discussions on trying to extend this beyond April next year or even make it permanent, at the moment it is not making much progress.

As it stands at this moment in time the last date which you will be able to add an IMCr to a Part FCL license is 8th April 2014.

So perhaps more honesty and less trying to use smoke and mirrors to infer that you have a solution is the call of the day?

Of course if you have an outright fact about the situation that corrects what I have said then please state it.....

[BEagle]

Whilst I agree there are still discussions on trying to extend this beyond April next year or even make it permanent, at the moment it is not making much progress.

Discussions are certainly ongoing, not least because of the EASA Management Board's endorsement of Principle 4.2 of the “European General Aviation Safety Strategy” which states:

‘Accept flexibility for continuation of specific local activities under NAA responsibility when they have not proven harmful to safety, to fair competition or to free circulation.’

This principle was endorsed by the EASA MB and at the meeting of the Board on 11 December its importance was specifically attested to by a number of Board Members.

EASA rulemakers could have made things easier for everyone by agreeing to IAOPA Europe's FCL.600(b) proposal - which would restore the flexibility of JAR-FCL 1.175(b). We haven't seen the draft opinion yet, but reactions to the CRD (including from the UK CAA) have renewed calls for such flexibility.

If there has to be an 'all or nothing' vote on FCL.008 as it now stands, the UK might have to vote against it, delaying the EIR, C-BM IR and SCR. Which would be a pity, but the blame would rightly fall on EASA's rulemakers for their intransigence. Hopefully they will be given firm political direction and revise their position before the draft opinion is released, otherwise lobbying will have to continue.

Incidentally, we already know that the IAA is firmly against the EIR and I suspect that at least one other NAA is too.....

[mad_jock]

personally I don't think this is anywhere near finished and there are still several game plans to come into view depending on the direction things go.

Personally I suspect there are enough EASA policy makers who would still love to see Europe having effective oversight of every pilot operating in its airspace

Thats about the some total of it. And never mind just EASA types there will loads of none aviation types who on a point of principle would prefer hell freezing over than anyone being able to dodge the oversight who is a citizen who lives and works in the EU.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

As it stands at this moment in time the last date which you will be able to add an IMCr to a Part FCL license is 8th April 2014.

So if I've got an IMCr on a CAA lifetime PPL that means I must convert to a Part FCL licence before 8th April 2014? (I knew I would have to do it one day, just checking the date.)

[VMC-on-top]

I thought after 4/2012 all licenses would be deemed an EASA license and then a proper EASA license would be issued on renewal in 2017?

Correct, but the CAA requires you to replace the JAR-FCL licence with an EASA one if you make any changes. At least the new EASA Part-FCL one would be valid for life.

Does this apply for an IMCR renewal (mine expires Sep 2013) which isn't a "change" and my JAR PPL in Sep 2014?

There are a few guys in our group with lifetime CAA PPL's who seem completely unaware of this so I imagine there will be many more who are in the same boat as Gertrude.

Finally, whatever happened to the french led team ??http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...anges-air.html

[Pace]

I think Pace is widely over optimistic about this, but only time will tell. However it does not change the situation that he is flying illegally at the moment if operating commercially in a N Reg aircraft without a reciprocal EASA requirement as required by law.

Bose

I too am a lot closer to this than you realize BTW just checked with an aviation lawyer and no I am not operating illegally at present!
Still up for a bet with you on 2014 being extended £1000 ???

Pace

[S-Works]

Why would I bet against something I dont want to see happen? I have no vested interest in supporting something that stifles freedom of choice.

As an already dual qualified on the types that I fly it has no impact on me at all.

However I think your desperation in avoiding hedging your bets has the potential to lead others astray and possibly into trouble.

I would suggest you seek in writing from the UK CAA confirmation that you are operating legally. After all it will be them that brings any prosecution against you. Having been told categorically at our last inspection that dual licences came into force on the 17th September for commercial operators.

[BEagle]

So if I've got an IMCr on a CAA lifetime PPL that means I must convert to a Part FCL licence before 8th April 2014? (I knew I would have to do it one day, just checking the date.)

Yes - if you wish to continue to use IMCR privileges on EASA aeroplanes.

Does this apply for an IMCR renewal (mine expires Sep 2013) which isn't a "change" and my JAR PPL in Sep 2014?

There are a few guys in our group with lifetime CAA PPL's who seem completely unaware of this so I imagine there will be many more who are in the same boat as Gertrude.

You may revalidate your IMCR in Sep 2013 and use them on both EASA aeroplanes and non-EASA aeroplanes unti Apr 2014. Therafter you won't be able to use IMCR privileges on EASA aeroplanes until you convert your JAR-FCL PPL to a Part-FCL PPL. Then, as it'll still be valid, your IMCR will appear as a valid IR(R) on your new lifetime Part-FCL licence, with a validity expiry date of Oct 2015 and will again be valid on both EASA and non-EASA aeroplanes.

If losing 5 months of the JAR-FCL licence time for which you've already paid is of more concern to you than losing 5 months of IMC privileges on EASA aeroplanes, then you can wait until Sep 2104 to convert your licence. But it will probably be a lot easier if you convert before Apr 2014.

Although AOPA and other organisations have been attempting to keep their members aware of the changes, it is recognised that not everyone chooses to be a member of such organisations - and I share your view that there will very probably be a huge number of 'unaware' pilots flying EASA aeroplanes on UK IMC Ratings after Apr 2014......

[peterh337]

BTW just checked with an aviation lawyer and no I am not operating illegally at present!

Of course you are legal - what you do is Part 91 ops. Non AOC. You are good till April 2014 - as things stand.

After that, you either need to collect the EASA pilot papers, or arrange a non-EU-based "operator", or maybe something will happen.

If there has to be an 'all or nothing' vote on FCL.008 as it now stands, the UK might have to vote against it, delaying the EIR, C-BM IR and SCR.

That would be really stupid.

The pilots who have the technical capability to use the EIR properly are doing just that right now, on plain PPLs, probably illegally, and certainly illegally once outside the UK.