TMG rating with EASA PPL
Next, SLMG. This can be added to an NPPL through differences training, but since 17th September 2012, you must take a skills test as well.
If someone says otherwise and "signs you up", beware the wrath of the CAA if you have an accident or incident.
The rules changed 17th Sept with the adoption of EASA last year, although in fact the Air Navigation Order always said you need a skills test to add a rating to your license.
If someone says otherwise and "signs you up", beware the wrath of the CAA if you have an accident or incident.
The rules changed 17th Sept with the adoption of EASA last year, although in fact the Air Navigation Order always said you need a skills test to add a rating to your license.
The actual requirement is as stated in CAP 804 Part II Section 5 Part A Appendix 1 Page 8:
SECTION 3. CROSS-CREDITING LICENCES AND RATINGS TO NPPL(A) (SLMG)
3.1 Pilots with valid licences and ratings
3.1.1 NPPL(SSEA), or any UK issued Licence with SEA or SEP Class Rating to NPPL(A)(SLMG)
The holder of a valid NPPL(A) with SSEA Class Rating, or any UK issued licence with SEP or SSEA Class Rating who wishes to obtain an SLMG Class Rating shall:
a) produce the Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with the rating;
b) produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed conversion training with an SLMG Instructor on self-launching motor gliders;
c) hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or Part-MED Class 1, 2 or LAPL medical certificate.
3.1 Pilots with valid licences and ratings
3.1.1 NPPL(SSEA), or any UK issued Licence with SEA or SEP Class Rating to NPPL(A)(SLMG)
The holder of a valid NPPL(A) with SSEA Class Rating, or any UK issued licence with SEP or SSEA Class Rating who wishes to obtain an SLMG Class Rating shall:
a) produce the Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with the rating;
b) produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed conversion training with an SLMG Instructor on self-launching motor gliders;
c) hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or Part-MED Class 1, 2 or LAPL medical certificate.
Last edited by BEagle; 8th Jun 2013 at 14:20.
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The actual requirement is as stated in CAP 804 Part II Section 5 Part A Appendix 1 Page 8:
Quote:
SECTION 3. CROSS-CREDITING LICENCES AND RATINGS TO NPPL(A) (SLMG)
3.1 Pilots with valid licences and ratings
3.1.1 NPPL(SSEA), or any UK issued Licence with SEA or SEP Class Rating to NPPL(A)(SLMG)
The holder of a valid NPPL(A) with SSEA Class Rating, or any UK issued licence with SEP or SSEA Class Rating who wishes to obtain an SLMG Class Rating shall:
a) produce the Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with the rating;
b) produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed conversion training with an SLMG Instructor on self-launching motor gliders;
c) hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or Part-MED Class 1, 2 or LAPL medical certificate.
Quote:
SECTION 3. CROSS-CREDITING LICENCES AND RATINGS TO NPPL(A) (SLMG)
3.1 Pilots with valid licences and ratings
3.1.1 NPPL(SSEA), or any UK issued Licence with SEA or SEP Class Rating to NPPL(A)(SLMG)
The holder of a valid NPPL(A) with SSEA Class Rating, or any UK issued licence with SEP or SSEA Class Rating who wishes to obtain an SLMG Class Rating shall:
a) produce the Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with the rating;
b) produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed conversion training with an SLMG Instructor on self-launching motor gliders;
c) hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or Part-MED Class 1, 2 or LAPL medical certificate.
I don't think you can. Looking at CAP804, your SLMG sign off will earn you TMG and/or self-launch sailplane endorsements on a sailplane licence (depending on what sort of SLMG you have been flying) but doesn't count for a TMG rating on an EASA PPL(A).
It may be that the easiest way would be to do a TMG skills test with a TMG examiner & include the TMG rating application form with your EASA conversion paperwork.
The CAA allowed SEP holders to fly TMGs without a TMG rating. You will need a TMG rating on your EASA PPL(A) to fly TMGs, & the rating will be printed on your EASA licence.
It may be that the easiest way would be to do a TMG skills test with a TMG examiner & include the TMG rating application form with your EASA conversion paperwork.
The CAA allowed SEP holders to fly TMGs without a TMG rating. You will need a TMG rating on your EASA PPL(A) to fly TMGs, & the rating will be printed on your EASA licence.
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Just a quick update:
I finally went to Oxfordshire Sport Flying (OSF) in Enstone to do the TMG training in their Super Dimona. The checkride can be done on weekdays with Clive Stainer who is based in Hinton just a few miles away. (The aircraft will be flown from Enstone to Hinton for the checkride and back.)
I can definitely recommend OSF for the TMG training, and I'll sure be back for some more flying in beautiful Southern England when I'm in the area.
I finally went to Oxfordshire Sport Flying (OSF) in Enstone to do the TMG training in their Super Dimona. The checkride can be done on weekdays with Clive Stainer who is based in Hinton just a few miles away. (The aircraft will be flown from Enstone to Hinton for the checkride and back.)
I can definitely recommend OSF for the TMG training, and I'll sure be back for some more flying in beautiful Southern England when I'm in the area.
Last edited by Zonkor; 9th Jun 2013 at 17:54.
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I have been looking to add a TMG to my EASA license and have contacted about 6 of the people on the BGA list to find out how to do this:
British Gliding Association >> Instructors >> Motor Gliding - Instructing & Examining
This list is out of date as Mike Carter on that list came back saying he had retired over a year ago!
There is a lot of confusion about what and whom can do the instruction and examining, so I took the approach I use with the Tax Man 'ask the same question three times over three days and take the average answer' only problem is after asking 6 people only two have come back with the same answer!!
I was also told that getting a TMG also means you can signed of for tail wheel aircraft as well! as long as the motor glider is a tail wheel of course. although I'm still trying to get that confirmed with 2 saying yes and 1 saying no.
hopefully today I will have all the answers and be in a position to start booking....
British Gliding Association >> Instructors >> Motor Gliding - Instructing & Examining
This list is out of date as Mike Carter on that list came back saying he had retired over a year ago!
There is a lot of confusion about what and whom can do the instruction and examining, so I took the approach I use with the Tax Man 'ask the same question three times over three days and take the average answer' only problem is after asking 6 people only two have come back with the same answer!!
I was also told that getting a TMG also means you can signed of for tail wheel aircraft as well! as long as the motor glider is a tail wheel of course. although I'm still trying to get that confirmed with 2 saying yes and 1 saying no.
hopefully today I will have all the answers and be in a position to start booking....
I lost my SLMG when I went from a UK PPL to a French one (It is a natioal rating) In France you can fly any motor glider on a glider pilot's licence, with an instructor sign-off for each different type. This may change in the future, so I have just done my TMG on a Dimona. Had to be with the right sort of examiner, i.e. Power and Glider. It allows me to fly TMG but not retractable engine motor gliders, that still requires a glider pilot's licence. I may stop the engine in flight but only while I continue to hold a valid glider pilot's licence. It does mean that I now have an international licence for TMG. Confused? Good. So am I.
Cost? Two hours flying, an hour with an instructor for type familiarisation, followed by an hours test. That gives me the TMG with tailwheel and VP variants. The Dimona is a pretty easy taildragger, as taildraggers go. The prop is a manual three position one, fine, coarse, and feathered.
The DGAC don't charge to put an extra rating on an existing licence. i'll be driving to Poitiers this week to the local DGAC office to get the stamp in my liçence.
Cost? Two hours flying, an hour with an instructor for type familiarisation, followed by an hours test. That gives me the TMG with tailwheel and VP variants. The Dimona is a pretty easy taildragger, as taildraggers go. The prop is a manual three position one, fine, coarse, and feathered.
The DGAC don't charge to put an extra rating on an existing licence. i'll be driving to Poitiers this week to the local DGAC office to get the stamp in my liçence.
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Piper Classiqu"I may stop the engine in flight but only while I continue to hold a valid glider pilot's licence. It does mean that I now have an international licence for TMG. Confused? Good. So am I."
Why would you need a licence to fly a glider to be allowed to stop the engine of a TMG if you have an EASA PPL(A) with a TMG?
Why would you need a licence to fly a glider to be allowed to stop the engine of a TMG if you have an EASA PPL(A) with a TMG?
The TMG is a Class not a Type rating. The validity period is not unique to TMG ratings, but applies to any additional Class or Type rating added to a licence
FCL.725 Requirements for the issue of class and type ratings
FCL.725 Requirements for the issue of class and type ratings
(c) Skill test. An applicant for a class or type rating shall pass a skill test in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part to demonstrate the skill required for the safe operation of the applicable class or type of aircraft.
The applicant shall pass the skill test within a period of 6 months after commencement of the class or type rating training course and within a period of 6 months preceding the application for the issue of the class or type rating.
The applicant shall pass the skill test within a period of 6 months after commencement of the class or type rating training course and within a period of 6 months preceding the application for the issue of the class or type rating.
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To PiperClassique
I don't think you need to have a SPL licence nor any sort of glider licence to be allowed to stop the engine in a TMG. If you have a valid TMG rating valid on an EASA PPL(A), you may fly the TMG within its limitations, and hence stop the engine in flight.
You also wrote that you have a TMG with VP and TW variant.
My understanding is that there is no such thing as a variant for an EASA TMG rating. Your EASA TMG rating is valid on all TMG's subject to familiarization training. My understanding is that the fact the you took a test on a variable pitch and tail wheel TMG does not allow you to fly SEP with VP nor TW, even if you have a valid SEP rating.
I don't think you need to have a SPL licence nor any sort of glider licence to be allowed to stop the engine in a TMG. If you have a valid TMG rating valid on an EASA PPL(A), you may fly the TMG within its limitations, and hence stop the engine in flight.
You also wrote that you have a TMG with VP and TW variant.
My understanding is that there is no such thing as a variant for an EASA TMG rating. Your EASA TMG rating is valid on all TMG's subject to familiarization training. My understanding is that the fact the you took a test on a variable pitch and tail wheel TMG does not allow you to fly SEP with VP nor TW, even if you have a valid SEP rating.
Thank you 172510.
I will go on the understanding of the office that issues my licence. As I fly SEP tailwheel anyway, more in fact than anything else, the fact that I did the TMG test on a tailwheel aircraft is irrelevant to my SEP.
I only did it for the grandfathering anyway, as I can fly TMG on a glider pilot licence ( French national licence) or indeed a retractable engine self launcher.
I will go on the understanding of the office that issues my licence. As I fly SEP tailwheel anyway, more in fact than anything else, the fact that I did the TMG test on a tailwheel aircraft is irrelevant to my SEP.
I only did it for the grandfathering anyway, as I can fly TMG on a glider pilot licence ( French national licence) or indeed a retractable engine self launcher.
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I'm trying without luck to find a place where I could train for a TMG/SLMG rating around London, the schools/clubs I tried don't return emails, don't answer the phone, or when they do tell me either that they don't have an instructor or that they don't have an airworthy aircraft.
If anyone can help me...
If anyone can help me...
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@ vjmehra
OSF at Enstone has been recommended on here by Zonkor, so you already know that there is a club which can do the training. Their web address is Oxfordshire Sportflying Club - Operators of Enstone Aerodrome
Personally, I am not aware of any other club which can do TMG conversions for JAR/EASA PPL holders. If you look at their website, OSF also offer ab initio NPPL/SLMG training as well as conversions for NPPL/SSEA and glider licence holders.
I don't have information on other organisations which may offer NPPL/SLMG training, so I have nothing to contributre on that front. You could however contact a few gliding clubs and check their web sites.
OSF at Enstone has been recommended on here by Zonkor, so you already know that there is a club which can do the training. Their web address is Oxfordshire Sportflying Club - Operators of Enstone Aerodrome
Personally, I am not aware of any other club which can do TMG conversions for JAR/EASA PPL holders. If you look at their website, OSF also offer ab initio NPPL/SLMG training as well as conversions for NPPL/SSEA and glider licence holders.
I don't have information on other organisations which may offer NPPL/SLMG training, so I have nothing to contributre on that front. You could however contact a few gliding clubs and check their web sites.
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Windrushers Bicester Airfield: they did not return my email. Their website advertise that they can train for SLMG/TMG rating.
Wycombe Booker gliding club: they don't do it
Oxfordshire Sportflying Enstone Aerodrome: they don't return emails either, but they are still in business.
Lasham: their motor glider will fly again next year.
To fly a TMG under EASA rules, you need
- either a TMG rating on an EASA PPL(A) or any other aeroplane licence or
- a LAPL(S) or SPL (SPL stands for Sail Plane I suppose) with TMG privileges.
A NPPL(SLMG) should be, according to CAP 804, easy to convert into a LAPL(S) or SPL with TMG privileges.
I don't know of any way to get a TMG rating on a PPL(A) on the basis of a NPPL(SLMG)
Wycombe Booker gliding club: they don't do it
Oxfordshire Sportflying Enstone Aerodrome: they don't return emails either, but they are still in business.
Lasham: their motor glider will fly again next year.
To fly a TMG under EASA rules, you need
- either a TMG rating on an EASA PPL(A) or any other aeroplane licence or
- a LAPL(S) or SPL (SPL stands for Sail Plane I suppose) with TMG privileges.
A NPPL(SLMG) should be, according to CAP 804, easy to convert into a LAPL(S) or SPL with TMG privileges.
I don't know of any way to get a TMG rating on a PPL(A) on the basis of a NPPL(SLMG)
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Originally Posted by Piper.Classique
I lost my SLMG when I went from a UK PPL to a French one (It is a natioal rating) In France you can fly any motor glider on a glider pilot's licence, with an instructor sign-off for each different type.
Last edited by 172510; 27th Nov 2013 at 18:39.
OK Chaps,
Can anyone give me a definitive answer to this question?
I have a UK PPL (valid for life) with two current ratings:SEP(L) and SLMG. When I apply for an EASA PPL, will my SLMG rating be transferred across as TMG on the new licence?
Can anyone give me a definitive answer to this question?
I have a UK PPL (valid for life) with two current ratings:SEP(L) and SLMG. When I apply for an EASA PPL, will my SLMG rating be transferred across as TMG on the new licence?