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Gliders & Parachutes

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Old 21st Feb 2013, 17:35
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Gliders & Parachutes

Having been gliding once a few years back I thought I may give it a go again, anyway looking at a few schools in and around London / The South East, I noticed a decent number (yet not all) of schools say everyone must wear parachutes.

Given I've never seen this for microlights or light aircraft, is there any particular reason behind this, i.e. are gliders more susceptible to structural failures or something like that? I presume that's not the case, but I wasn't sure what the answer was.

Or is it simply a case of, for whatever reason the gliding community simply has an additional safety requirement in place?
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 17:42
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They are more susceptible to mid-air collisions, as they tend to gather around the same bit of sky where the lift is found.
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 17:42
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Gliders do tend to spend a lot of time in close proximity to each other in thermals & on ridges where the lift is concentrated in small areas & everyone wants some of the action.
Just my experience of the reason.

Edit: Backpacker beat me to it

Last edited by Crash one; 21st Feb 2013 at 17:43.
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 17:45
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Originally Posted by vjmehra
Given I've never seen this for microlights or light aircraft, is there any particular reason behind this, i.e. are gliders more susceptible to structural failures or something like that?
Gliders are usually more robust than other aircrafts (Utility category) because they are usually flew aggressively in rough conditions.

Structural failures are not an issue, instead they are more susceptible to in-flight collisions since we fly often close together in the same thermal or ridge.

AFAIK the parachute is mandated by law, at least it is so in Italy and most gliders have seats designed for it and cannot be flown without.

Ciao,
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 17:47
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Ah okay, that does make sense!

Out of curiosity, I guess most people have never tried...but would you have much time to get out and activate a parachute in a mid-air collision?

I guess to be honest, the answer is probably along the lines of...maybe, but better to have one and find out than not and never know!
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 17:51
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I know three people who have abandoned gliders, two due to mid air collisions while thermaling and one due to structural failure in severe turbulence ( in Southern Europe )

I don't think anyone gets into a glider without a chute !

I will add that the risk of a gilder having a structural failure is so low that it alone does not justify a parachute.

Last edited by A and C; 21st Feb 2013 at 17:54.
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 17:53
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There is many a glider pilot alive today as the result of pulling the chute.

BB
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 17:58
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Excellent, well that's answered everything in record time :-)

I guess one more maybe, any recommendations on gliding schools in and around London (ideally south, south/east, but I can be flexible)...
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 18:04
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-vjmehra

Both the mid air collisions that I know of personally the pilots stated that once they had jettisoned the canopy as soon as they released the seat harness they found themselfs ejected from the glider presumably due to the out of balance forces of half an airframe trying to fly !
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 21:17
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Try Lasham for south of London, near Basingstoke. South east of London is rather restricted because of airspace problems. Lasham is a very big club and owns its own field. Both winch and aerotow. Tell them Mary sent you....

Last edited by mary meagher; 21st Feb 2013 at 21:19.
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 21:37
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Nip up the M40 to Windrushers Gliding Club at the Bicester Gliding Centre.
www.windrushers.org.uk

Jim
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 21:48
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CG too

Every modern single seater designs the CG for a pilot with chute. The couple inches forward a chute gives you help keep the CG within limits.

Haven't had to use mine yet
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Old 21st Feb 2013, 23:17
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Glider/glider collisions were very few and far between in the 1970s, increased in frequency in the following decades, and in recent years have been slightly fewer. We don’t know if the latter is a genuine improvement or a statistical blip.

For about three decades, they accounted for an average of nearly one fatality a year, or nearly a third of total gliding fatalities.

There are also non-fatal collisions, of course. It is estimated that about half of those which could have been fatal, in fact were saved from being so by pilots having and using parachutes.

In the UK, it is not a legal requirement to wear a parachute in a glider. Most if not all gliding clubs insist on all pilots wearing parachutes in club gliders, however, unless the pilot is simply too heavy and has to take a cushion so as still to fit the recess in the seat. Similarly, almost all privately owned gliders are flown by pilots wearing parachutes.

Overall accident rates in gliders are rather better than power flying, AIUI, but the relative incidence of causes is quite different. For example, CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) is a relatively common cause of fatal accidents in power flying but almost unknown in gliding.

Learning gliding is pretty safe, as is learning power flying. The dangers seem to come later, when one form or another of pilot error is the most common factor - and that is up to us.

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Old 22nd Feb 2013, 07:26
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Cool, thanks for the suggestions on clubs...are there any near train stations as I don't have a car :-(
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Old 22nd Feb 2013, 11:05
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Kenley has the Surrey Hills Gliding Club (London borough of Croydon) and has rail stations close by
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Old 22nd Feb 2013, 11:08
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vj, that'll be Windrushers, then as the Bicester train station is within about half a mile -

And regarding use of PARACHUTES IN GLIDERS, not only is it useful in the event of a midair...a few years back there was a notorious incident near Dunstable, when a two seater K21 glider was STRUCK BY LIGHTNING!

Both pilots bailed out, using their parachutes safely, though one chap sprained an ankle on landing. They didn't need to open the canopy as it had disintegrated. The AAIB took the pieces of glider and found that the lightning strike had been considerably ABOVE the current provision (current, heh!) reuired to equip air transport to survive lightning strikes.

It melted the controls in the K21, and burnt the hairs on the back of the instructors neck and made him deaf for an hour or two. So there you go, parachutes in gliders a good idea. Would they let you carry your parachute on board an airliner? It might upset the other passengers.....
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Old 22nd Feb 2013, 11:14
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Out of curiosity, I guess most people have never tried...but would you have much time to get out and activate a parachute in a mid-air collision?
I know of an incident where a pilot bailed at 800ft and survived without injury, but I'm told most are rated at 400-500ft minimum opening height.

Since Mary has started the club-plugging, I'll highly recommend Kent Gliding Club at Challock (near Ashford in Kent) which has two railway stations nearby and plenty of members willing to give lifts.

It's relatively small compared to the likes of Lasham but has an excellent atmosphere with 7 days of flying in the Summer. PM if you want more information or want to to arrange a visit.

Last edited by ChrisA87; 22nd Feb 2013 at 11:15.
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Old 22nd Feb 2013, 11:41
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I've 'experienced' 3 glider pilots taking to their 'chutes from an ATC point of view.
1. Farnborough based aircraft south of Basingstoke advised us he'd seen a glider fuselage descending ahead of him with the wings fluttering down nearby, and the pilot on his parachute descending too. We alerted Odiham who had a Puma in the circuit. The Puma picked up the glider pilot before he had chance to gather up his parachute and took him to sick quarters at Odiham.
2. During a competition at Lasham, a tug called to advise us there had been a mid-air collision. Once again we asked Odiham helicopters launched a search.
3. When gliding was still allowed at Farnborough, the club caravan called ATC to advise one of their aircraft appeared to have had structural failure and the pilot had parachuted out. In fact it transpired it had had a mid air with a C152 transitting adjacent to the ATZ.
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Old 22nd Feb 2013, 11:43
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A link to the BGA Find a club page.

vjmehra,

Most clubs do weekday &/or weekend courses during the summer & can offer some form of on-site accommodation. If you can get the time off I would really recommend a 5 day midweek course to get you off to a flying start.
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Old 22nd Feb 2013, 13:01
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Hitting the silk.......

Just idle curiosity, but do these guys who bail out join the caterpillar club??
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