Learn From my mistakes!
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Learn From my mistakes!
On my second solo trip i tuned in the ndb and i knew i was more than 10nm away so it would give false readings.. Bumbling along talking to ema..... On way back to tatenhill...( I moved to the midlands only a year prior so landmarks etc were not my strongest point at this point) all of a sudden i saw rugeley power plant... Tatenhill is to the right i knew so i know where i am.. On the home front! This solo lark is easy! 
Ndb point slightly out, but it would be for a bit...compass not changed on route.... But i was heading for the power plant.. I knew where i was. Calcs were out but didnt matter!
Then.... In my ear came g-tal...can you tell me where you think you are?!!!!
Oh ****! I knew i messed up... I was heading for the wrong power plant and on route to cross over ema airport to get there!
Controller came back with standby while i moved a ryan air jet for ya! Sure enough i looked out window and there was one ... Although a fair distance it looked big (and beautiful)!
After getting vectors back to where i needed to be and after thanking the kind man at ema profusely i told my cfi who just said....."you made it then?!"
I hung my head in shame.....
Lessons learned;
Know where you are at all times dont "think"
Trust your calculations
Trust the range of the NDB
Check compass!
Student prefix does give me some forgiveness!
Always talk to someone if you can
Dont be a cocky little ****e who thinks he is invincible and "nah it dont matter"!
Many more lessons learned after that.... But im glad i did them all.... Makes me a better person now
Ndb point slightly out, but it would be for a bit...compass not changed on route.... But i was heading for the power plant.. I knew where i was. Calcs were out but didnt matter!
Then.... In my ear came g-tal...can you tell me where you think you are?!!!!
Oh ****! I knew i messed up... I was heading for the wrong power plant and on route to cross over ema airport to get there!
Controller came back with standby while i moved a ryan air jet for ya! Sure enough i looked out window and there was one ... Although a fair distance it looked big (and beautiful)!
After getting vectors back to where i needed to be and after thanking the kind man at ema profusely i told my cfi who just said....."you made it then?!"
I hung my head in shame.....
Lessons learned;
Know where you are at all times dont "think"
Trust your calculations
Trust the range of the NDB
Check compass!
Student prefix does give me some forgiveness!
Always talk to someone if you can
Dont be a cocky little ****e who thinks he is invincible and "nah it dont matter"!
Many more lessons learned after that.... But im glad i did them all.... Makes me a better person now
Last edited by Pilot.Lyons; 14th Feb 2013 at 22:43.
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Don't argue with ATC....or your CFI!!
Story (1). Ann Arbor Michigan, having just arrived from New Jersey - 3 hours in a rented spam can, without a headset...this was mistake number one, actually, because I could barely understand the gabble from the overhead speaker over the engine noise. And I was a bit fatigued. Landed at Ann Arbor, which is a controlled airport, taxied back and on the taxiway realised I would have to cross the active runway to get to the apron. So I did.
On getting to the fuel pumps I was informed that ATC wanted me on the phone....and did they give me a rollicking because I had crossed the active without permission, and an aircraft was on approach. I said "Well, I had a jolly good look and saw him and had plenty of time to cross before he got there....."
Somehow this didn't go down very well.....so I had to meet ATC in person and apologise and explain how difficult it was to hear instructions without a headset, long trip, didn't realise, sorry sorry sorry....so was let off further punishment. Moral. It's still a good idea to have a jolly good look!
Story (2) At my gliding club I had qualified to take up friends and family. Which of course any PPL is allowed to do, but not necesarily solo glider pilots.
I had persuaded nearly 100 friends and family to fly with me by the time the following incident took place.
Lounging around at the launchpoint, two Japanese businessmen turned up with yellow tickets, which meant that they had PAID for a trial lesson. No instructors were present, so the duty pilot said "Oh, Mary's OK, she can fly them." So I did, and both flights went very well, 30 minutes each in a K13 from aerotow. And feeling full of pride and joy I waltzed into the lunchroom and announced to the congregation "I flew two yellow tickets this morning!"
The CFI was present, and said sternly, "Mary, you are NOT qualified to fly trial lessons!"
"Well," I answered cheekily, "Your girlfriend has been flying trial lessons and she's not qualified......"
There was a very very long silence. Evidently the girlfriend had been having private instruction, and certainly she had the necessary skills.....
I went home and thought about it all through a sleepless night. If I was going to survive in the gliding club, I would have to make things right with the CFI.
So next morning, I went into his office and gave the following carefully worded apology. "Alan, I'm sorry I was rude!" (notice I didn't say I was wrong, because I STILL don't think I was wrong!)
"Well, Mary," answered the CFI, "As you are so keen, I have arranged a special Basic Instructor course for you this weekend with Alex Jones." Talk about diplomacy!
Which only shows how very well qualified he was to be CFI. I flew with Captain Jones, and demonstrated the moves and showed I knew how to yell loud enough to get the "student" to LET GO of the controls (any experienced mother knows how to yell at her kids.) And so began my long and illustrious career as a gliding instructor!
End of story 2. Moral, it is unwise to critisize the CFI's girlfriend.
Names have been changed, for good reasons.
On getting to the fuel pumps I was informed that ATC wanted me on the phone....and did they give me a rollicking because I had crossed the active without permission, and an aircraft was on approach. I said "Well, I had a jolly good look and saw him and had plenty of time to cross before he got there....."
Somehow this didn't go down very well.....so I had to meet ATC in person and apologise and explain how difficult it was to hear instructions without a headset, long trip, didn't realise, sorry sorry sorry....so was let off further punishment. Moral. It's still a good idea to have a jolly good look!
Story (2) At my gliding club I had qualified to take up friends and family. Which of course any PPL is allowed to do, but not necesarily solo glider pilots.
I had persuaded nearly 100 friends and family to fly with me by the time the following incident took place.
Lounging around at the launchpoint, two Japanese businessmen turned up with yellow tickets, which meant that they had PAID for a trial lesson. No instructors were present, so the duty pilot said "Oh, Mary's OK, she can fly them." So I did, and both flights went very well, 30 minutes each in a K13 from aerotow. And feeling full of pride and joy I waltzed into the lunchroom and announced to the congregation "I flew two yellow tickets this morning!"
The CFI was present, and said sternly, "Mary, you are NOT qualified to fly trial lessons!"
"Well," I answered cheekily, "Your girlfriend has been flying trial lessons and she's not qualified......"
There was a very very long silence. Evidently the girlfriend had been having private instruction, and certainly she had the necessary skills.....
I went home and thought about it all through a sleepless night. If I was going to survive in the gliding club, I would have to make things right with the CFI.
So next morning, I went into his office and gave the following carefully worded apology. "Alan, I'm sorry I was rude!" (notice I didn't say I was wrong, because I STILL don't think I was wrong!)
"Well, Mary," answered the CFI, "As you are so keen, I have arranged a special Basic Instructor course for you this weekend with Alex Jones." Talk about diplomacy!
Which only shows how very well qualified he was to be CFI. I flew with Captain Jones, and demonstrated the moves and showed I knew how to yell loud enough to get the "student" to LET GO of the controls (any experienced mother knows how to yell at her kids.) And so began my long and illustrious career as a gliding instructor!
End of story 2. Moral, it is unwise to critisize the CFI's girlfriend.
Names have been changed, for good reasons.
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IMO the biggest mistake is to believe you can continue to make mistakes indefinitely...
Unfortunately, each survivable mistake reinforces that belief.
Unfortunately, each survivable mistake reinforces that belief.
Last edited by Sillert,V.I.; 15th Feb 2013 at 10:16.
1) Confusing 02 and 20
2) Trying to fly round the circuit against traffic, even though I could see an aircraft lining up on the ground
3) Not listening to my inner voice telling me 'Something's not right here'
I have since learned that 02 and 20 is a classic mistake, which doesn't make me feel much better about it.
Perhaps part of my relaxedness came from learning to fly at a controlled airport where it was common to switch directions for one reason or another. Doesn't make me feel less stupid.
~~~
To be human is to continue to make mistakes, therefore to continue to fly is to accept that one will continue to make mistakes.
I would phrase it slightly differently - it's unacceptable not to try to continually improve one's skills, and it's unacceptable to be sloppy. But accepting that your fallibility may kill you is an essential part of being an honest pilot.
2) Trying to fly round the circuit against traffic, even though I could see an aircraft lining up on the ground
3) Not listening to my inner voice telling me 'Something's not right here'
I have since learned that 02 and 20 is a classic mistake, which doesn't make me feel much better about it.
Perhaps part of my relaxedness came from learning to fly at a controlled airport where it was common to switch directions for one reason or another. Doesn't make me feel less stupid.
~~~
To be human is to continue to make mistakes, therefore to continue to fly is to accept that one will continue to make mistakes.
I would phrase it slightly differently - it's unacceptable not to try to continually improve one's skills, and it's unacceptable to be sloppy. But accepting that your fallibility may kill you is an essential part of being an honest pilot.
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Confusing 02 and 20
Last edited by thing; 15th Feb 2013 at 14:51.
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Learn From my mistakes!
Taxying across tatenhills grass today slipping everywhere with lots of thrust just to not get stuck.... Then having someone point out the sign put in a doorway stating NOT to use grass just as the owner walks past!
I apologised and said i didn't want to wait for the three planes queuing to land making me late..... Plane was filthy so there was no getting away with it...
I quickly paid and left hoping there was not a sniper on the roof waiting for me to leave
Probably not the best way to impress the people who i rely on just to fly when i can save up the pennies to
I apologised and said i didn't want to wait for the three planes queuing to land making me late..... Plane was filthy so there was no getting away with it...
I quickly paid and left hoping there was not a sniper on the roof waiting for me to leave
Probably not the best way to impress the people who i rely on just to fly when i can save up the pennies to
Last edited by Pilot.Lyons; 15th Feb 2013 at 15:38.
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My first recollection that Flight Instructors are fallible came when we took a flight across Dusseldorf Airport's Control Zone. I had passed my ground exams and was ready to start doing solo cross country flights, the FI wanted to see how I would handle "real" ATC - so off we went.
I arrived at November and reported it, was then told to "report 3 miles from the field" - without DME, how could I do that? Either way, I guestimated, reported 3 miles and was asked to make a 360 for separation. Ok, nearly completed my 360, am now approved to cross the field over the threshold of Runway 25 - so I head towards the threshold whereupon my instructor said "no, why are you heading there? You want to exit via Sierra so head straight across the airfield towards the tower". Without thinking, I followed his instructions, not thinking to remind him what ATC had just cleared us for. When ATC then pointed out that "the threshold of 25 is nowhere near the Tower", I apologised, pointed our error to the FI who said nothing...... After that, I decided blind faith was perhaps dangerous, if I had a question, I would question the FI about his "suggestions".....
In my eyes it's good for all student PPLs to get into the habit of raising concerns with their FI instead of thinking "he was flying these sort of machines whilst I was in nappies, he knows what he's doing...."
I arrived at November and reported it, was then told to "report 3 miles from the field" - without DME, how could I do that? Either way, I guestimated, reported 3 miles and was asked to make a 360 for separation. Ok, nearly completed my 360, am now approved to cross the field over the threshold of Runway 25 - so I head towards the threshold whereupon my instructor said "no, why are you heading there? You want to exit via Sierra so head straight across the airfield towards the tower". Without thinking, I followed his instructions, not thinking to remind him what ATC had just cleared us for. When ATC then pointed out that "the threshold of 25 is nowhere near the Tower", I apologised, pointed our error to the FI who said nothing...... After that, I decided blind faith was perhaps dangerous, if I had a question, I would question the FI about his "suggestions".....
In my eyes it's good for all student PPLs to get into the habit of raising concerns with their FI instead of thinking "he was flying these sort of machines whilst I was in nappies, he knows what he's doing...."
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Check flight for my first glider solo. This was at Syserston, a long time ago, we flew left hand circuits from the grass on one side of the hard runway, the Air Cadets flew motor gliders in a right hand circuit from the other side.
Instructor pulled the bung at 500'. No problem. Lower the nose, check the attitude, wait for the speed, wait for the speed. Got the speed, now start an abbreviated circuit.
As I commenced my turn I had a nagging feeling that something wasn't quite right here, something obvious was very wrong. As I hesitantly began rolling into a turn, the voice behind me calmly said "What are you doing?". "Well I'm going to fly a circuit and land back". "Yes", comes the calm reply, "but shouldn't you be turning to the LEFT?!".
Ooops.
He let me sort it out and from then on everything went to plan. The whole incident passed off in no more than a second, but it was a huge shock and taught me that you really do have to think about the boring details.
Amazingly, as soon as we got back on the ground he hopped out and sent me off on my own!!
Instructor pulled the bung at 500'. No problem. Lower the nose, check the attitude, wait for the speed, wait for the speed. Got the speed, now start an abbreviated circuit.
As I commenced my turn I had a nagging feeling that something wasn't quite right here, something obvious was very wrong. As I hesitantly began rolling into a turn, the voice behind me calmly said "What are you doing?". "Well I'm going to fly a circuit and land back". "Yes", comes the calm reply, "but shouldn't you be turning to the LEFT?!".
Ooops.
He let me sort it out and from then on everything went to plan. The whole incident passed off in no more than a second, but it was a huge shock and taught me that you really do have to think about the boring details.
Amazingly, as soon as we got back on the ground he hopped out and sent me off on my own!!
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My first recollection that Flight Instructors are fallible
Sure enough that was how he was but it did not phase me and I flew a pretty good test ignoring the occasional explosion.
Having done a number of approaches in different configuration he wanted a clean engine out approach with no flaps.
He then reached over and bugged the full flap VREF.
"What is he doing" I thought and grabbed the chart to get the correct speed for the aircraft clean.
I left the bug where he had placed it and added the 25 extra kts to that figure so flew the bugged speed plus 25 kts.
Sure enough there came the explosion "your 25 kts too fast get back to VREF".
I smiled at him and letting him off the hook praised him for trying to catch me out in a very crafty way!
After spluttering with embarrassment and realizing HIS mistake he mumbled about " Well spotted " and I passed with glowing comments
Pace
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On the downwind left traffic for 21 doing touch and goes at KSMO with the CFI, the tower informs us they are switching to use runway 03 and instructs me to do a right 360 to allow spacing for an incoming 152 currently on extended downwind right traffic for 03 they will call me back when ready for me to follow in behind the Cessna. Upon nearing the completion of the 360 the CFI asks why I'm positioned so close to the field? Me being a right smug know-it-all student quoted safety tips I’d heard from other pilots, specifically I tell him the reason is that if the engine quits I can glide to the field. He replied “oh it’s not IF the engine quits, I can guarantee it will, and I can even tell you WHY” puzzled I asked him to elaborate, to which he said “these lycoming O-235's do not run well when jammed up the pilot ass” even more puzzled I asked how that's going to happen and he says the 152 you are about to have a head-on with will put it there, now stay the f**k out of the pattern until your told otherwise.
Last edited by piperboy84; 16th Feb 2013 at 12:25.
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Solo circuits.
Second session.
Landed after a departing jet. Approach was a bit bumpy so concentration levels were very high.
Got down ok and immediately reset the power and took off again. I asked ATC for the circuit direction on upwind leg. I flew one more circuit and landed full stop.
Got into the flying school to be given a message phoned in from ATC. Instructor advised me that I had been cleared to land and not for a touch and go because of spacing issues. Wasn't a bollocking more a reminder to listen to clearances thoroughly and remember clearances might not always be what is expected.
Was actually a very useful experience. Still could have ended badly though.
Second session.
Landed after a departing jet. Approach was a bit bumpy so concentration levels were very high.
Got down ok and immediately reset the power and took off again. I asked ATC for the circuit direction on upwind leg. I flew one more circuit and landed full stop.
Got into the flying school to be given a message phoned in from ATC. Instructor advised me that I had been cleared to land and not for a touch and go because of spacing issues. Wasn't a bollocking more a reminder to listen to clearances thoroughly and remember clearances might not always be what is expected.
Was actually a very useful experience. Still could have ended badly though.
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Instructor advised me that I had been cleared to land and not for a touch and go because of spacing issues
Personally I would have MOR'd the tower if I was the instructor. And included references about Southend.
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The other point which does not make sense is a landing to full stop would have blocked the runway for as long as a touch and go would do in climbing out before turning away from the centreline.
As MJ says cleared land is the important clearance which could involve a T&G anyway.
Cleared touch and go is more a pre planned ATC approval usually in multi circuits or a flight test and more to let them know your intentions to not be coming to a full stop although that maybe also be the result of a touch and go.
I see it more of a courtesy clearance
Pace
As MJ says cleared land is the important clearance which could involve a T&G anyway.
Cleared touch and go is more a pre planned ATC approval usually in multi circuits or a flight test and more to let them know your intentions to not be coming to a full stop although that maybe also be the result of a touch and go.
I see it more of a courtesy clearance
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 18th Feb 2013 at 10:12.
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It will have been for a medium departure Pace they will have given a full stop then cleared the aircraft after the 2 mins.
Its pure bollocks mind because the Light aircraft will be touching and rotating in the first 500meters of the runway and the medium will be rotating in the last 3rd of the runway. The light aircraft will be turning crosswind beofre it gets anywhere near the wash off the medium. That is of course if it was a jet if they were behind a slab wing TP there is no where near the same amount of vortex but they would be near to its rotation point.
Its pure bollocks mind because the Light aircraft will be touching and rotating in the first 500meters of the runway and the medium will be rotating in the last 3rd of the runway. The light aircraft will be turning crosswind beofre it gets anywhere near the wash off the medium. That is of course if it was a jet if they were behind a slab wing TP there is no where near the same amount of vortex but they would be near to its rotation point.
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being denied touch and go clearance is a regular occurance at my home airport , as has been mentioned its due to separation clearance from the previously taking off plane.
As a student with my instructor on board , I'm allowed to tell the tower that I'm waiving the wake turbulence separation. As a solo student I'm not. My options are either to call an overshoot or request a stop and go ( usually with them calling the go)
My instructor insists on making the "waive wake turbulance separation" call as he doesn't want me to get into the habit of doing it. My choices are very clear if I'm on my own , go around or stop.
While theoreticlaly you are right that I should be well out of the way of the vortices, wind conditions can do funny things to them. I've been landing behind a medium ( about one minute behind it) and got stung just appraoching the threshold. I rolled about 20 degrees and nearly impaled myself on the edge of the runway coming up out the lake.
It shook me up enough to consider quitting. Never again will the "caution wake turbulence" become part of the background noise of my landing clearance!
As a student with my instructor on board , I'm allowed to tell the tower that I'm waiving the wake turbulence separation. As a solo student I'm not. My options are either to call an overshoot or request a stop and go ( usually with them calling the go)
My instructor insists on making the "waive wake turbulance separation" call as he doesn't want me to get into the habit of doing it. My choices are very clear if I'm on my own , go around or stop.
While theoreticlaly you are right that I should be well out of the way of the vortices, wind conditions can do funny things to them. I've been landing behind a medium ( about one minute behind it) and got stung just appraoching the threshold. I rolled about 20 degrees and nearly impaled myself on the edge of the runway coming up out the lake.
It shook me up enough to consider quitting. Never again will the "caution wake turbulence" become part of the background noise of my landing clearance!
Last edited by localflighteast; 18th Feb 2013 at 15:17.
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You shouldn't be one min behind a medium in a light. Recommended is 4 miles which is 4 mins.
I wouldn't do that in my work machine which is also a medium.
So I am really not suprised you nearly ended up on your back in the grass.
Oh and if someone sticks you behind a 757 make it 5-6 miles they are a dirty bitch when it comes to wake vortex.
I wouldn't do that in my work machine which is also a medium.
So I am really not suprised you nearly ended up on your back in the grass.
Oh and if someone sticks you behind a 757 make it 5-6 miles they are a dirty bitch when it comes to wake vortex.
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What class does a Q400 come under? Maybe I'm wrong and its not a medium?
The separation they give us here is 3 minutes behind a takeoff. As far as I'm aware there is no mandated separation between two landing planes, but yeah looking back on it 1 minute was tight.
I have video of the incident , on a big HD screen you can actually see the vortices rolling to the side over the water, remaining strangely parallel ( not dissipating at all).
Didn't help that I was practicing short field approaches and was probably far too shallow on my approach angle. that was my lesson to learn . You really do need to approach ABOVE the path of the heavier plane.
The separation they give us here is 3 minutes behind a takeoff. As far as I'm aware there is no mandated separation between two landing planes, but yeah looking back on it 1 minute was tight.
I have video of the incident , on a big HD screen you can actually see the vortices rolling to the side over the water, remaining strangely parallel ( not dissipating at all).
Didn't help that I was practicing short field approaches and was probably far too shallow on my approach angle. that was my lesson to learn . You really do need to approach ABOVE the path of the heavier plane.
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Q400 is ICAO medium.
There will be mandated Radar seperation but VFR traffic is self seperating and recommended distances.
Off a Q400 those arn't wake vortex's they are ripples of uglyness rolling away from the aircraft.
There will be mandated Radar seperation but VFR traffic is self seperating and recommended distances.
Off a Q400 those arn't wake vortex's they are ripples of uglyness rolling away from the aircraft.
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I actually quite like the Q400s !
However in reliving this experience I've discovered that a CADORS report was actually filed.
I'm a bit pissed to be honest, not that a report was filed but the fact that it states potential source not identified by NAV CANADA
do you think it might have been the plane you landed about 58 seconds in front of me?
However in reliving this experience I've discovered that a CADORS report was actually filed.
I'm a bit pissed to be honest, not that a report was filed but the fact that it states potential source not identified by NAV CANADA
do you think it might have been the plane you landed about 58 seconds in front of me?