That one accident...
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That one accident...
As pilots we read about plane accidents all the time, and we try to analyse them and make sense of them.
I think we all have them. The one accident that we remember or that got to you in particular way. For me it was the crash of N690SM into Superstition Mountain just outside of Phoenix, AZ a couple of years ago just before a holiday. As a Commander flyer myself perhaps, maybe it was the abstract b/w CCTV footage, but mainly because of those 3 little kids and their father. A whole family gone in an instant. Poof. Absolutely tragic and heart wrenching - at least they never suffered.
Was it avoidable?
NTSB report still not out, but pilots had for years warned FAA that the Bravo airspace around Phoenix was dangerous in its design. It forced traffic to stay below 5000ft, when mountain tops all around were higher. Not a problem if the Phoenix controllers let people transition or climb into Bravo like they do elsewhere, but they regularly didn't. They had a policy not to grant B transitions as they didn't want to deal with the extra traffic. Perhaps the fact that loads of training took place in the area, with students not very proficient in English, had put them off. Nevertheless - LAX deals with Bravo transitions all the time, so why can't Phoenix?
As they departed Falcon field VFR, they turned right. Why he was flying VFR in a Turbine Commander 690A at night is not clear. Maybe he didn't have time to wait for clearance, maybe he was going to pick it up enroute, maybe he wanted the freedom of VFR, maybe he wasn't IFR rated. We'll never know. They crashed straight into the mountains at 4600ft, which is consistent with trying to stay below the 5000ft shelf of Bravo above him. Just a few more miles and the Bravo goes away and he could have climbed. But by that time it was to late. As one can see from the picture, there isn't a lot of room to wiggle between the rocks and the Bravo.
What I don't understand is why the controllers at Falcon did not say "are you aware of rising terrain ahead of you?". They regularly do that to me when I fly - in fact they're almost annoyingly vigilant about it. Sure, N690SM would be out of Falcons Delta airspace long before the mountain became a threat, but it wouldn't have hurt to ask or remind the pilot as he departed on collision course. Also, that last ring of Bravo airspace between 5000-9000ft seems unnecessarily large compared to the inner wedding cake rings. Couldn't the outer most part have been divided in two and had the outer shelf be 7000ft instead? Well, this is exactly what the pilots have been saying for years to the FAA. And in the clip at the bottom from Fox (I hope you can see it in the UK) a secret internal memorandum from the FAA agrees with the criticism.
Naturally, this is going to be blamed on pilot error and lack of situational awareness. And ultimately, of course it is. It was a moonless night, but surely he must have seen the city lights below him disappear and questioned why? Did he not use a GPS? Did he not have a chart? But I can't help to think that had the Phoenix controllers not set a precedent by not allowing VFR into Bravo, then maybe he would have asked for a transition and a higher altitude earlier. He didn't need much - another 500ft and he would have cleared it. Had the FAA not designed a less than ideal Terminal Arrival? And had the tower controller not merrily sent him off his way without taking that extra 2 seconds to ask and reassure - would a whole family be alive today?
I wonder.
But in general this is something I've always been uneasy about: the division into "us" against "them" in air traffic control. At best just exclusive, but bloody dangerous at worst. Here in the US, the integration has become better since the FAA allowed them to be paid by the amount of traffic they handle - VFR or IFR. Today one can rely on getting radar service almost always and can be reasonably sure of getting a Bravo transition unless you sound and behave like a tw*t. This is not the case in most other places in the world. And it leads to dangerous shifts not even between commercial traffic and GA, but between "entitled" traffic and "non-entitled". I don't know what the solution is, but I suspect that restrictive airspace, IFR only airspace, or military airspace - breeds it.
Not a lot of wiggle room between the Bravo shelf and the mountains after departing Falcon field.
Here's a clip talking about the FAA findings and footage of both crash and kids before departing:
Shedding light on Superstition Mountains plane crash
I think we all have them. The one accident that we remember or that got to you in particular way. For me it was the crash of N690SM into Superstition Mountain just outside of Phoenix, AZ a couple of years ago just before a holiday. As a Commander flyer myself perhaps, maybe it was the abstract b/w CCTV footage, but mainly because of those 3 little kids and their father. A whole family gone in an instant. Poof. Absolutely tragic and heart wrenching - at least they never suffered.
Was it avoidable?
NTSB report still not out, but pilots had for years warned FAA that the Bravo airspace around Phoenix was dangerous in its design. It forced traffic to stay below 5000ft, when mountain tops all around were higher. Not a problem if the Phoenix controllers let people transition or climb into Bravo like they do elsewhere, but they regularly didn't. They had a policy not to grant B transitions as they didn't want to deal with the extra traffic. Perhaps the fact that loads of training took place in the area, with students not very proficient in English, had put them off. Nevertheless - LAX deals with Bravo transitions all the time, so why can't Phoenix?
As they departed Falcon field VFR, they turned right. Why he was flying VFR in a Turbine Commander 690A at night is not clear. Maybe he didn't have time to wait for clearance, maybe he was going to pick it up enroute, maybe he wanted the freedom of VFR, maybe he wasn't IFR rated. We'll never know. They crashed straight into the mountains at 4600ft, which is consistent with trying to stay below the 5000ft shelf of Bravo above him. Just a few more miles and the Bravo goes away and he could have climbed. But by that time it was to late. As one can see from the picture, there isn't a lot of room to wiggle between the rocks and the Bravo.
What I don't understand is why the controllers at Falcon did not say "are you aware of rising terrain ahead of you?". They regularly do that to me when I fly - in fact they're almost annoyingly vigilant about it. Sure, N690SM would be out of Falcons Delta airspace long before the mountain became a threat, but it wouldn't have hurt to ask or remind the pilot as he departed on collision course. Also, that last ring of Bravo airspace between 5000-9000ft seems unnecessarily large compared to the inner wedding cake rings. Couldn't the outer most part have been divided in two and had the outer shelf be 7000ft instead? Well, this is exactly what the pilots have been saying for years to the FAA. And in the clip at the bottom from Fox (I hope you can see it in the UK) a secret internal memorandum from the FAA agrees with the criticism.
Naturally, this is going to be blamed on pilot error and lack of situational awareness. And ultimately, of course it is. It was a moonless night, but surely he must have seen the city lights below him disappear and questioned why? Did he not use a GPS? Did he not have a chart? But I can't help to think that had the Phoenix controllers not set a precedent by not allowing VFR into Bravo, then maybe he would have asked for a transition and a higher altitude earlier. He didn't need much - another 500ft and he would have cleared it. Had the FAA not designed a less than ideal Terminal Arrival? And had the tower controller not merrily sent him off his way without taking that extra 2 seconds to ask and reassure - would a whole family be alive today?
I wonder.
But in general this is something I've always been uneasy about: the division into "us" against "them" in air traffic control. At best just exclusive, but bloody dangerous at worst. Here in the US, the integration has become better since the FAA allowed them to be paid by the amount of traffic they handle - VFR or IFR. Today one can rely on getting radar service almost always and can be reasonably sure of getting a Bravo transition unless you sound and behave like a tw*t. This is not the case in most other places in the world. And it leads to dangerous shifts not even between commercial traffic and GA, but between "entitled" traffic and "non-entitled". I don't know what the solution is, but I suspect that restrictive airspace, IFR only airspace, or military airspace - breeds it.
Not a lot of wiggle room between the Bravo shelf and the mountains after departing Falcon field.
Here's a clip talking about the FAA findings and footage of both crash and kids before departing:
Shedding light on Superstition Mountains plane crash
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 6th Feb 2013 at 15:33.
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I do not know the area very well. Would the following be feasible to avoid such accidents?:
After takeoff Falcon follow a NNE heading climbing to 4900 until DME 24.9 PXR, then right turn onto DEM arc 25.1 PXR, remain on DME arc and continue climb until clear of floor MSA.
THats the way I would do it to stay VFR and clear of Class B in good VFR conditions. However, I would file IFR at night in such an environement...
After takeoff Falcon follow a NNE heading climbing to 4900 until DME 24.9 PXR, then right turn onto DEM arc 25.1 PXR, remain on DME arc and continue climb until clear of floor MSA.
THats the way I would do it to stay VFR and clear of Class B in good VFR conditions. However, I would file IFR at night in such an environement...
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Thanks Adam for bringing this to our attention.
Indeed you are probably correct that this could be an even more common problem outside the US. Though a lot of places outside the US don't allow VFR at night, so it's probably very country specific in terms of how much of a problem it is elsewhere.
Indeed you are probably correct that this could be an even more common problem outside the US. Though a lot of places outside the US don't allow VFR at night, so it's probably very country specific in terms of how much of a problem it is elsewhere.
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Very very interesting Adam. I'm sure you know that attiudes here toward VFR transits of controlled airspace are far, far worse, to the extent that arguably most VFR pilots don't even ask. I agree with your comment on this because here people get into all kinds of strife with getting lost on long detours, infringement of other airspace, and yes, even hitting high ground because refusal of a direct route is likely.
In my experience this kind of refusal is very rare in the US. I know you said on another thread that you might be refused entry to Bravo at Las Vegas, but in my experience of at least a hundred flights in and out of there that has never happened. (I have been kept holding over the dam though).
So maybe this poor chap was afraid to ask for higher. But equally there could be other reasons like radio channel congested, distraction in the aircraft, etc., etc. It would not have taken long to fly to the crash site.
If you are making a submission to the FAA (or NTSB) just suggest they send someone over here to have a look at what happens to VFR GA when airspace becomes defacto inaccessible due to unhelpful controllers and the liberal use of class A. I, for one, would be happy to show them around.
In my experience this kind of refusal is very rare in the US. I know you said on another thread that you might be refused entry to Bravo at Las Vegas, but in my experience of at least a hundred flights in and out of there that has never happened. (I have been kept holding over the dam though).
So maybe this poor chap was afraid to ask for higher. But equally there could be other reasons like radio channel congested, distraction in the aircraft, etc., etc. It would not have taken long to fly to the crash site.
If you are making a submission to the FAA (or NTSB) just suggest they send someone over here to have a look at what happens to VFR GA when airspace becomes defacto inaccessible due to unhelpful controllers and the liberal use of class A. I, for one, would be happy to show them around.
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Very very interesting Adam. I'm sure you know that attiudes here toward VFR transits of controlled airspace are far, far worse, to the extent that arguably most VFR pilots don't even ask.
Last edited by thing; 6th Feb 2013 at 15:48.
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I've never found controllers that are less than helpful
I've even had repeated refusals on successive days, and whatever you might imagine about my radio skills, that's not it. But maybe things are improving. LBA, instead of refusing a transit, gave me a point to point routeing that just happened to be just the outside the 'D' all the time! (No report to file).
The fact remains that in the US, class 'D' requires two-way radio contact (not agreement) for a transit. Here, it's whatever they want it to be, including psuedo class 'A' .
Adam
While this is certainly a tragedy to all involved and there is a less then ideal layout for controlled airspace around the Phoenix area, IMO this one is all on the PIC. To be stooging around at low level in hilly terrain at night in a 270 kt Turboprop is IMO just plain bad judgement.
This accident would not have happened if the pilot had filed IFR.
While this is certainly a tragedy to all involved and there is a less then ideal layout for controlled airspace around the Phoenix area, IMO this one is all on the PIC. To be stooging around at low level in hilly terrain at night in a 270 kt Turboprop is IMO just plain bad judgement.
This accident would not have happened if the pilot had filed IFR.
It really, really takes no mentionable effort to ask for Radar Service or "VFR Flight following" and a Class B clearance.
Wanting to stay below Class B is a additional risk if you really can't be bothered.
Accidents like this are no 'accident'.
No single cause either, always a chain of events.
Wanting to stay below Class B is a additional risk if you really can't be bothered.
Accidents like this are no 'accident'.
No single cause either, always a chain of events.
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That accident was virtually the definition of a tragedy. The outcome is almost predetermined and as all the pieces fall into place, so the tragedy unfolds!
My one accident was Malcolm Allen's. He was a great pilot, a nice chap and a friend. We were both in the same flying group and he gave me a lot of advice when I first flew our Jurca Tempete. He was a far more experienced pilot than I. When he crashed as the result of hyperthermia combined with a high stress situation, I suddenly realised that even very good pilots could seriously get things wrong! Since then I've known that I should never judge too harshly when it's "pilot error" and it's almost always a case of "there but for the grace of God .... "
SS
My one accident was Malcolm Allen's. He was a great pilot, a nice chap and a friend. We were both in the same flying group and he gave me a lot of advice when I first flew our Jurca Tempete. He was a far more experienced pilot than I. When he crashed as the result of hyperthermia combined with a high stress situation, I suddenly realised that even very good pilots could seriously get things wrong! Since then I've known that I should never judge too harshly when it's "pilot error" and it's almost always a case of "there but for the grace of God .... "
SS
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Pace
I am so glad that you are not in any position to make the rules!
Such a sweeping ban based on issues at on (and there might be more) field? So I can't night VFR a helicopter from my home field that does not have these problems?
Hardly a proportionate response
I am so glad that you are not in any position to make the rules!
Such a sweeping ban based on issues at on (and there might be more) field? So I can't night VFR a helicopter from my home field that does not have these problems?
Hardly a proportionate response
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If I'd been this chap, I'd have asked for Flight Following immediately after departure (Can you do this on the ground at Falcon Field as you can in many US airfields?...if so I'd have requested FF on the ground and then FFieldtower would have handed me straight to departure)...then asked to climb higher asap. I am sure they wouldn't have let him fly into a mountain with FF and probably issued a clearance into the B...
I flew back from FF to San Diego at night once, beautiful stars out in the desert.
I flew back from FF to San Diego at night once, beautiful stars out in the desert.
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John my comment was a bit tongue in Cheek but tinged with a certain truth!
if a pilot wants to takeoff VFR at night and the night really happens to be dusk or one of those nights which are clear with a full moon or even a night flight where the pilot stays close to his airfield then no problems.
Where a pilot takes off into a black black night to go any distance to another airport then IMO he should have solid Instrument capability.
Any problem that occurs at night is a far bigger problem than in the day and the chances of a VFR pilot becoming IMC are far greater at night.
The safest night flight has to be IFR in CAS! Anything less is less safe as this accident demonstrates.
I was always of the opinion that the night rating should be part of the IMCR or IR and not a post PPL VFR addon! Crazy horse before the Kart nonsense and I mean NON SENSE not nonsense.
Pace
if a pilot wants to takeoff VFR at night and the night really happens to be dusk or one of those nights which are clear with a full moon or even a night flight where the pilot stays close to his airfield then no problems.
Where a pilot takes off into a black black night to go any distance to another airport then IMO he should have solid Instrument capability.
Any problem that occurs at night is a far bigger problem than in the day and the chances of a VFR pilot becoming IMC are far greater at night.
The safest night flight has to be IFR in CAS! Anything less is less safe as this accident demonstrates.
I was always of the opinion that the night rating should be part of the IMCR or IR and not a post PPL VFR addon! Crazy horse before the Kart nonsense and I mean NON SENSE not nonsense.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 11th Feb 2013 at 20:37.
