Hi-viz "approved" colors
Unless the event is at night, and headlights (whether human or machine mounted) are being used, there's no point in having retroreflective strips. The idea of these is that they reflect light almost exactly back to where it came from so they show up very well if you're wearing a head-torch or driving a car with headlights, but not at all if it's a daytime event.
Blue and ultraviolet light have no brightness (if you're ever in a club, look (briefly) at an ultraviolet strip light. It will have colour (deep blue) but little or no brightness). It's impossible to make a bright blue jacket, which is why there aren't any. High-vis jackets are typically fluorescent - i.e. they take in blue light and let it out at lower frequencies in the spectrum e.g. red, yellow or green. This means that they can be brighter than a white surface, and the colours draw attention to the vests.
I can explain chromaticity co-ordinates, but they're unlikely to be useful unless you have access to a spectrophotometer or at the very least a chromameter and calibrated light source. As an aside, the most commonly used chromaticity co-ordinates were developed by the physicist Schrodinger. They're very counter-intuitive in part for the joy of it, and in part because they were designed around a mechanical calculator that couldn't deal with negative numbers. I can also discuss the neurophysiology and evolutionary reasons as to why blue has no brightness (unless you're a dolphin).*
Checking the British Standard or using hats sounds the best idea to me. I'm interested to hear that you're only meant to wear orange if you work on the railways, which I didn't know. I bought a few yellow fluorescent mesh jackets from Ebay and they were surprisingly cheap - I think I paid about £2 each. It's important not to wash them too often as the dyes wash out or are broken down quite easily.
*I spent several years sitting through presentations about what colours different fire-extinguishers should be in Australia, and how many colours there are in Russian versus Hungarian rainbows. This hasn't proved very useful to me in later life, so forgive me for showing off when the opportunity arises.
Blue and ultraviolet light have no brightness (if you're ever in a club, look (briefly) at an ultraviolet strip light. It will have colour (deep blue) but little or no brightness). It's impossible to make a bright blue jacket, which is why there aren't any. High-vis jackets are typically fluorescent - i.e. they take in blue light and let it out at lower frequencies in the spectrum e.g. red, yellow or green. This means that they can be brighter than a white surface, and the colours draw attention to the vests.
I can explain chromaticity co-ordinates, but they're unlikely to be useful unless you have access to a spectrophotometer or at the very least a chromameter and calibrated light source. As an aside, the most commonly used chromaticity co-ordinates were developed by the physicist Schrodinger. They're very counter-intuitive in part for the joy of it, and in part because they were designed around a mechanical calculator that couldn't deal with negative numbers. I can also discuss the neurophysiology and evolutionary reasons as to why blue has no brightness (unless you're a dolphin).*
Checking the British Standard or using hats sounds the best idea to me. I'm interested to hear that you're only meant to wear orange if you work on the railways, which I didn't know. I bought a few yellow fluorescent mesh jackets from Ebay and they were surprisingly cheap - I think I paid about £2 each. It's important not to wash them too often as the dyes wash out or are broken down quite easily.
*I spent several years sitting through presentations about what colours different fire-extinguishers should be in Australia, and how many colours there are in Russian versus Hungarian rainbows. This hasn't proved very useful to me in later life, so forgive me for showing off when the opportunity arises.
If you covered a cushion with the material used in a typical high vis jacket you would not be allowed to sell it because it does not comply with the fire safety regulations. But its OK to wear it to improved safety! I wonder if there are exemption certificates for anyone prone to spontaneous combustion?
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My company issues us with HI Viz Cold Weather clothing that meets all the British and EU standards. The colour of this clothing is orange, but there is a certain UK airport that insists we wear a yellow Hi Viz tabard over our clothing. Another mad one is MALMO. Many of the buildings are painted yellow and I have been pulled up for not wearing my yellow tabard whilst walking past these buildings. They have no answer when I say I have removed it so I can be seen. Also had fun at a hospital where they held a fire drill. Many of the staff whilst outside donned the hi-viz clothing, rightly so as they were near traffic etc. the manager organising the drill threw his teddy out of the cot because he insisted they remove the Hi-Viz so that people could see he was in charge. Although this is similar to BackPackers delema in this case all the staff knew he was in charge. During the de-brief they tried to point this out, but he was still sulking. The solution was for him to wear a specialy marked hat. He was happy with that idea until he saw what was written on the hat!
It can be that some airfields use differing colours of hi-vis to identify particular roles to assist in identifying in an emergency situation.
As you say you intend to be active at a number of place it might be tedious but best to simply contact them explaining your needs and asking their requirements, an e-mail bcc'd to each perhaps?
Might cause consternation if a small airfield suddenly had a dozen fire chiefs or Operations Staff running around one day
In my experience the standard yellow tends to be the "normal" hi-vis with the orange/red used to easily identify those with a particular function/role in an emergency situation.
As you say you intend to be active at a number of place it might be tedious but best to simply contact them explaining your needs and asking their requirements, an e-mail bcc'd to each perhaps?
Might cause consternation if a small airfield suddenly had a dozen fire chiefs or Operations Staff running around one day
In my experience the standard yellow tends to be the "normal" hi-vis with the orange/red used to easily identify those with a particular function/role in an emergency situation.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ...back of the drag curve
Age: 61
Posts: 558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From memory there is a specification which I think I have seen in CAP 168 (Airfields).
Hi Viz yellow/green is the norm and there is a British Standard or similar for the colours etc. Many Airports now have part yellow, part orange jackets to denote the really important people airside.
Everyone wears hi viz these days. It dilutes the reason for having it when you turn up at an airshow and all the photographers are wearing them. Does it make them feel important or something?
Always makes me laugh when I see pilots (Flying Instructors are the worst culprits) wearing hi viz to fly in.
Ever seen burnt skin with plastic stuck to it...... Not nice in a fire situation
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Piper, come and visit one of our events once. There's one at Schiphol Airport (yes, the number four airport in Europe) where we have some 120 sick/handicapped children, their family and 200+ volunteers running around. About 100 of those wear hi-viz, either because they're pilots, or airside volunteers, or regular Schiphol employees with hi-viz jackets as part of their work clothing. Now try to pick out the one guy who is in charge, and is also wearing a hi-viz because of his airside duties.
The hi-viz is not just because of optical conspicuity by the way. The gate between landside and airside is manned and only two kinds of people are allowed to pass:
- People with airside authorization and a hi-viz jacket. Pilots, marshallers and such, mostly. At least people who know their way around aircraft.
- Passengers under the guidance of one such person. Passengers are not wearing hi-viz of course.
This means that if we see someone walking around without a hi-viz jacket, who is not accompanied by someone wearing one, we have an "issue". Most likely this is a passenger who walked (ran) away from his/her guardian. With children around that are as young as 6 years old physically, and maybe only 2 years old mentally, that "issue" is serious.
So the hi-viz is also used as a "badge of office" or whatever you want to call it. It allows me to glance around the apron and quickly see if everything is "In Ordnung".
Those 120 children also mean 120 VFR flights by the way. We essentially get our own runway (04/22), our own Tower frequency (which, on the day, is not called Schiphol Tower but Hoogvliegers Tower
) and our own dedicated air traffic controller.
Now try to imagine the same event at Heathrow or Charles de Gaulle and you see my problem.
Chuffer, I think you're on to something with the yellow/orange blocked or striped vests. That would work just fine.
The hi-viz is not just because of optical conspicuity by the way. The gate between landside and airside is manned and only two kinds of people are allowed to pass:
- People with airside authorization and a hi-viz jacket. Pilots, marshallers and such, mostly. At least people who know their way around aircraft.
- Passengers under the guidance of one such person. Passengers are not wearing hi-viz of course.
This means that if we see someone walking around without a hi-viz jacket, who is not accompanied by someone wearing one, we have an "issue". Most likely this is a passenger who walked (ran) away from his/her guardian. With children around that are as young as 6 years old physically, and maybe only 2 years old mentally, that "issue" is serious.
So the hi-viz is also used as a "badge of office" or whatever you want to call it. It allows me to glance around the apron and quickly see if everything is "In Ordnung".
Those 120 children also mean 120 VFR flights by the way. We essentially get our own runway (04/22), our own Tower frequency (which, on the day, is not called Schiphol Tower but Hoogvliegers Tower
) and our own dedicated air traffic controller.Now try to imagine the same event at Heathrow or Charles de Gaulle and you see my problem.
Chuffer, I think you're on to something with the yellow/orange blocked or striped vests. That would work just fine.
Last edited by BackPacker; 5th Feb 2013 at 21:53.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Two pages? TWO PAGES? On hi-vis jackets? Words fail me. Suggest a sanity check here. OP, use whatever colour you like. Take it off before flight. Good grief.
SD
Backpacker, I do realise you will have a lot of people around. However, an escaping child will be just as obvious if those around it aren't imitating roadworkers. We had that many people at Le Bourget on International Women's day and the marshallers had hi-vis and wands. The pilots didn't. None of us. No-one walked into a prop.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True, but if I come up to the Schiphol people and tell them that nobody will be wearing hi-viz airside except the marshallers, it's not going to fly. Literally in this case.
The sad reality is that hi-viz is a requirement which cannot and will not be waived. So I've got to solve my problem within that constraint.
The sad reality is that hi-viz is a requirement which cannot and will not be waived. So I've got to solve my problem within that constraint.
The sad reality is that hi-viz is a requirement which cannot and will not be waived. So I've got to solve my problem within that constraint
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Landed at an airport in single figures latitude middle of the night which was pitch black. On a crappy freight apron with only one bulb working.
Aircraft met by 15 locals all but 1 in a high viz.
Me wandering around in white shirt.
Out of the dark with no headlights working comes a huge local driving an old landy. Then proceeds to rip into none high viz wearing local.
Hell I think that sod is going to skin me with some fine or other for not wearing one.
Finishes shouting in the local lingo and sticks on a huge smile and says "Jambo Jambo Captain"
"Well Jambo to you to sir, I do aplogise for not having my hi-viz on I will just go and get it"
"No problem Captain we can see you whities at night, its us darkies that need hi-viz on especially if we don't brush our teeth and chew tobbacca like that bugger"
I just burst out laughing and the hi-viz stayed where it was for the next 4 months.
Aircraft met by 15 locals all but 1 in a high viz.
Me wandering around in white shirt.
Out of the dark with no headlights working comes a huge local driving an old landy. Then proceeds to rip into none high viz wearing local.
Hell I think that sod is going to skin me with some fine or other for not wearing one.
Finishes shouting in the local lingo and sticks on a huge smile and says "Jambo Jambo Captain"
"Well Jambo to you to sir, I do aplogise for not having my hi-viz on I will just go and get it"
"No problem Captain we can see you whities at night, its us darkies that need hi-viz on especially if we don't brush our teeth and chew tobbacca like that bugger"
I just burst out laughing and the hi-viz stayed where it was for the next 4 months.
