Door Opening In flight
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Door Opening In flight
So this happened to me on Sunday, 4000 ft about halfway across Cook Strait (13 NM of ocean not nice) Had not noticed the door was not latched properly on my check until the Pax pointed out she could see day light through the top and was it supposed to look like that.
I reduced power and cracked the door to re-seal big mistake. the door didn't fly open but the suction from the airflow made it impossible for me to close securely.
I was in a controlled VFR climb so the controller noticed i'd dropped nearly 400 ft trying to secure the door. i told him i had an issue and was returning to NZPP - got clearance to descend and return to the airport.
On the way down i reduced power again and this time managed to get the door to latch and then by sticking my fingers in the hole in the roof make the latch lock, the passenger helped keep the plane in a shallow decent
I could then continue the journey (another 20/30 mins) and landed uneventfully at NZOM
The Pax was strangely OK with the whole thing until she heard my tone "You really need to hold this door shut" once shut she was good as gold! brilliant .
lessons learnt.
Pre flight properly!
Tell the controller you have an issue first then try and fix
maybe not open the door at all! (that really freaked me out)
Nice day for it tho,.. nice flight once i'd got the heart rate back below 160
go on tell me what i did wrong....
I reduced power and cracked the door to re-seal big mistake. the door didn't fly open but the suction from the airflow made it impossible for me to close securely.
I was in a controlled VFR climb so the controller noticed i'd dropped nearly 400 ft trying to secure the door. i told him i had an issue and was returning to NZPP - got clearance to descend and return to the airport.
On the way down i reduced power again and this time managed to get the door to latch and then by sticking my fingers in the hole in the roof make the latch lock, the passenger helped keep the plane in a shallow decent
I could then continue the journey (another 20/30 mins) and landed uneventfully at NZOM
The Pax was strangely OK with the whole thing until she heard my tone "You really need to hold this door shut" once shut she was good as gold! brilliant .
lessons learnt.
Pre flight properly!
Tell the controller you have an issue first then try and fix
maybe not open the door at all! (that really freaked me out)
Nice day for it tho,.. nice flight once i'd got the heart rate back below 160
go on tell me what i did wrong....
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I suspect you are talking about a PA28. If so, then you can preflight as much as you like, these things do pop open occasionally, latched or not. Happened to me a couple of times during my training (I learned to fly on PA28s, now avoid them if I can). No big deal, basically just keep going. Absent an autopilot it's probably much more dangerous to try to close/lock the door than to simply let it trail slightly ajar. From distant memory the POH suggests to open the storm window on the pilot side before attempting to close it.
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What aircraft type? PA28?
Anyway, in general, by getting into a slight sideslip left or right you may be able to subtly alter the airflow over the fuselage, making the door close of its own accord. (I had a cowling access hatch lock failure a while ago. This particular access hatch has the hinge aligned with the airflow, so it was flapping about and overstressing the hinge. Not good. With a very light touch on the right rudder pedal I could subtly alter the airflow so that the hatch stayed shut. Diverted anyway.)
And kudos for telling ATC about your problem. They'll then know not to bother you with too much details, but will be able to tell other aircraft to get out of your way.
Anyway, in general, by getting into a slight sideslip left or right you may be able to subtly alter the airflow over the fuselage, making the door close of its own accord. (I had a cowling access hatch lock failure a while ago. This particular access hatch has the hinge aligned with the airflow, so it was flapping about and overstressing the hinge. Not good. With a very light touch on the right rudder pedal I could subtly alter the airflow so that the hatch stayed shut. Diverted anyway.)
And kudos for telling ATC about your problem. They'll then know not to bother you with too much details, but will be able to tell other aircraft to get out of your way.
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It all depends on the aircraft type and knowing your POH.
Its well worth reviewing the POH (before flight) so you know how much of a problem an unlatched door might be.
On many types it is non critical and no cause for alarm.
On some it is an emergency - you dont want the door to unlatch on an Aztec for example.
To be harsh, if its non critical you may have been unnecessarily alarmed which caused the height loss, whereas had you known it was not critical you could have taken time to deal with the issue. Alternatively as is some times the case the first action may have been to slow down, whereas by reacting to the emergency in terms of an anxiety to latch the door you might have ended up speeding up and achieving exactly the opposite result.
Never the less well done you sorted out the problem and all is well.
Its well worth reviewing the POH (before flight) so you know how much of a problem an unlatched door might be.
On many types it is non critical and no cause for alarm.
On some it is an emergency - you dont want the door to unlatch on an Aztec for example.
To be harsh, if its non critical you may have been unnecessarily alarmed which caused the height loss, whereas had you known it was not critical you could have taken time to deal with the issue. Alternatively as is some times the case the first action may have been to slow down, whereas by reacting to the emergency in terms of an anxiety to latch the door you might have ended up speeding up and achieving exactly the opposite result.
Never the less well done you sorted out the problem and all is well.
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Anyway, in general, by getting into a slight sideslip left or right you may be able to subtly alter the airflow over the fuselage, making the door close of its own accord
Nobody has died from having a door open in flight. Plenty have died trying to close them... Food for thought.
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Hi all it was my trusty old PA38 (i don't own but i'm pretty much the only guy who flies it).
Re ATC i almost called a PAN but thought i'd make it nicely back but i did let the chaps know id need a level change PDQ they were great told me to remain on frequency and to let them know how to assist.
Never thought about the CV window, that makes sense. bloody latch...
FK
Re ATC i almost called a PAN but thought i'd make it nicely back but i did let the chaps know id need a level change PDQ they were great told me to remain on frequency and to let them know how to assist.
Never thought about the CV window, that makes sense. bloody latch...
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Maybe on types where the door is liable to pop open in flight the instructor should make sure the student has seen it at least once during training ... ?
When the door popped open on my first ever flight with a passenger I just explained to the passenger that this was no big deal ("it's the seat belt that stops you falling out, the door is just to keep the draught off") and dealt with it. I might have coped less well if it hadn't happened to me during training.
When the door popped open on my first ever flight with a passenger I just explained to the passenger that this was no big deal ("it's the seat belt that stops you falling out, the door is just to keep the draught off") and dealt with it. I might have coped less well if it hadn't happened to me during training.
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Nobody has died from having a door open in flight. Plenty have died trying to close them... Food for thought.
PS: never flown a PA38, so don't know how much of an issue it could potentially be there.
Wombat - that's exactly what my instructor did. He also showed me how easy it is to make inadvertent control inputs while fiddling with the door. Came in handy when the door duly popped open on my long x-country. I just left it in peace and went on my merry way. Nobody got hurt....
Last edited by 172driver; 29th Jan 2013 at 10:22. Reason: added comment in reply to Wombat
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Door open on a PA38 nothing whats so ever apart from increased wind noise.
In fact sometimes the top latch is left open during summer just to keep the temp down.
If the bottom latch pops open which is actually quite hard to do it no great shakes only thing you need to watch is that if you stand on the brakes it doesn't go swinging forward and damage the hinges. Obviously if you start stalling or spinning you might get issues.
In fact sometimes the top latch is left open during summer just to keep the temp down.
If the bottom latch pops open which is actually quite hard to do it no great shakes only thing you need to watch is that if you stand on the brakes it doesn't go swinging forward and damage the hinges. Obviously if you start stalling or spinning you might get issues.
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FK73,
I've never flown a PA38 so can't comment on the specifics.
However I've had the door open a number of times in a PA28. Apart from the irritating noise, it's a non event.
If you follow the guidance in the POH, it's very easy to close. Advice is basically to
1. slow down
2. Close all air vents (suprisingly important step)
3. Use lots of left rudder to get the airflow over the door
Doing this it is very simple to relatch.
If you don't mind the noise, then just keep going and ignore it!
I suspect that there is a similar proceedure in the PA38 POH. You should ready it and be prepared to do it next time if necessary.
dp
I've never flown a PA38 so can't comment on the specifics.
However I've had the door open a number of times in a PA28. Apart from the irritating noise, it's a non event.
If you follow the guidance in the POH, it's very easy to close. Advice is basically to
1. slow down
2. Close all air vents (suprisingly important step)
3. Use lots of left rudder to get the airflow over the door
Doing this it is very simple to relatch.
If you don't mind the noise, then just keep going and ignore it!
I suspect that there is a similar proceedure in the PA38 POH. You should ready it and be prepared to do it next time if necessary.
dp
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PS. Any advice is obviously type specific.
I remember on my checkout in a TB9, the instructor made it very clear (with good reason!) that if the door opened in flight, under no circumstances should I attempt to close it again!
TB's have gull wind doors, so it would involve undooing your seat beal and trying to stand up to reach the door....obviously not a good idea!
I remember on my checkout in a TB9, the instructor made it very clear (with good reason!) that if the door opened in flight, under no circumstances should I attempt to close it again!
TB's have gull wind doors, so it would involve undooing your seat beal and trying to stand up to reach the door....obviously not a good idea!
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Can't remember one.
Although you can fly and approach with a simulated main control failure by using the doors for yaw and the trimmer for pitch. Mind you that wasn't in the POH either.
Maybe its better Kiwi if you keep the door open in case an icle spider comes to visit again and you scream like a girl
Although you can fly and approach with a simulated main control failure by using the doors for yaw and the trimmer for pitch. Mind you that wasn't in the POH either.
Maybe its better Kiwi if you keep the door open in case an icle spider comes to visit again and you scream like a girl
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Something similar happened to me on my first flight after getting my PPL.
Proudly took a friend to the airfield and loaded him into the PA28. A few minutes after take off the announced he was getting wet (we were passing through a small shower) - sure enough the top latch hadn't engaged. After a few seconds, since:
From the PA38 POH:
Simples 
OC619
Proudly took a friend to the airfield and loaded him into the PA28. A few minutes after take off the announced he was getting wet (we were passing through a small shower) - sure enough the top latch hadn't engaged. After a few seconds, since:
- I remembered being told it wasn't an emergency if the door came open
- I couldn't remember what the book said I should do
From the PA38 POH:
If both upper and side latches are open the door will trail slightly open and airspeeds will be reduced slightly.
To close the door in flight:
Slow airplane to 90 KIAS
Cabin vents....................................................... ..............................................close
Storm window...................................................... ............................................open
If upper latch is open........................................................ ................................latch
If side latch is open...............pull on arm rest while moving latch handle to latched position.
If both latches are open...................................................latch side latch then top latch
To close the door in flight:
Slow airplane to 90 KIAS
Cabin vents....................................................... ..............................................close
Storm window...................................................... ............................................open
If upper latch is open........................................................ ................................latch
If side latch is open...............pull on arm rest while moving latch handle to latched position.
If both latches are open...................................................latch side latch then top latch
OC619
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Good that you have learnt from this event.
The key thing is not to panic. When something goes wrong or unexpected, unless you're on fire or about to crash into terrain, the first thing to do is sit on your hands and think about what you're going to do.
With a door still on the main latch, you would of had plenty of time to get the POH out, and refer to it for guidance on how to get the door closed.
There was no need to open the main latch at all, the top latch on a tommy can be undone and done up completely independently from the main latch. The metal loop often gets a little bent out of shape so doesn't fully latch both doors without a bit of wiggling.
The key thing is not to panic. When something goes wrong or unexpected, unless you're on fire or about to crash into terrain, the first thing to do is sit on your hands and think about what you're going to do.
With a door still on the main latch, you would of had plenty of time to get the POH out, and refer to it for guidance on how to get the door closed.
There was no need to open the main latch at all, the top latch on a tommy can be undone and done up completely independently from the main latch. The metal loop often gets a little bent out of shape so doesn't fully latch both doors without a bit of wiggling.
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Referring back to the initial post. There is no such thing as suction.
Take a spoon and hold the handle between your figures spoon down in a stream of water from a tap, bowl end just in the stream.
I think that is what he had in mind.
I've had a similar event in a Pa28R (totally my fault as I had forgotten to latch the door - a classic getthereitis case). What surprised me about your story FK73 is that the noise of an open door didn't alert you to the problem. The wind noise was so loud in my case I could barely hear the radio at 100 knots. I was alone at the time so elected to return to the airfield I had recently departed, land, close and latch it properly and depart again.
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I've had a similar event in a Pa28R (totally my fault as I had forgotten to latch the door - a classic getthereitis case). What surprised me about your story FK73 is that the noise of an open door didn't alert you to the problem. The wind noise was so loud in my case I could barely hear the radio at 100 knots.
On a PA28 the top latch really pulls in the whole of the top half of the door. Flying without it latched causes a lot of wind noise through a gap of around half an inch which runs about a third of the length of the door, including the front section of the door which is exposed to the airflow.
In a PA38, the top latch really just pulls in the very top of the door, which actually curves over the top of the fuselage. It can leave a gap as small as a quarter of an inch, although could be much larger depending on how well the door fits. This gap is nowhere near as exposed to the airflow as it would be in a PA28, therefore creates a lot less noise. One could easily fly all day with both top latches in a PA38 undone and be none the wiser.
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Hi chaps, good pick i am a 160 hour PPL 5 months out from my first BFR i have around 80 hours PIC most of that X-Country an in a variety of air frames.
@ Fujii The 'suction'is the only way a can describe the difficulty in shutting the door as the air movement nearly made it impossible to do so with out really reducing power and speed (went down to about 2000 rpm and slowed to 70 knots)
Vents closed and CV window open would have helped and the POH was in the seat back behind me so, i didn't panic but i didn't do everything right either.
@Mad Jock, good memory buddy ....that spider was huge.. and on my hand.
@Flyingkiwi, Hi! and no, no noise. The gap as about half an inch could clearly see the blue through it. no noise at all and i don't have an ANR headset. I had both vents open full in the aircraft as it was very hot, probably why i didn't notice the airflow.
I attempted to close the door as i was concerned about the Pax getting freaked out, we had a ways to go to the destination and a ways to go back i was not quite at the half way mark but close to.
Next time i'll leave it alone...but i do know i can do it,.. and i can fix the &%#$#$ piper latch with my fingers.
@ Fujii The 'suction'is the only way a can describe the difficulty in shutting the door as the air movement nearly made it impossible to do so with out really reducing power and speed (went down to about 2000 rpm and slowed to 70 knots)
Vents closed and CV window open would have helped and the POH was in the seat back behind me so, i didn't panic but i didn't do everything right either.
@Mad Jock, good memory buddy ....that spider was huge.. and on my hand.
@Flyingkiwi, Hi! and no, no noise. The gap as about half an inch could clearly see the blue through it. no noise at all and i don't have an ANR headset. I had both vents open full in the aircraft as it was very hot, probably why i didn't notice the airflow.
I attempted to close the door as i was concerned about the Pax getting freaked out, we had a ways to go to the destination and a ways to go back i was not quite at the half way mark but close to.
Next time i'll leave it alone...but i do know i can do it,.. and i can fix the &%#$#$ piper latch with my fingers.
Last edited by FlyingKiwi_73; 29th Jan 2013 at 21:06.