Door Opening In flight

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Although you can fly and approach with a simulated main control failure by using the doors for yaw and the trimmer for pitch. Mind you that wasn't in the POH either.

However using the open doors to sail backwards in a floatplane is in the book!

(OK, maybe not the POH, but it's in the text book.)

The key thing is not to panic. When something goes wrong or unexpected, unless you're on fire ... the first thing to do is sit on your hands and think about what you're going to do.

Yes. And just because the cabin suddenly fills up with a burning smell this does not necessarily mean you're on fire - it might just mean that you've accidentally pulled the cabin heat knob (which, it being the middle of summer, hasn't been used for months) rather than the cabin air knob.

Remembering having read about a pilot who killed herself by misdiagnosing a burning smell as an engine fire and shutting down the engine unnecessarily, I didn't touch anything until I'd thought about it for a bit ... which gave me time to work out what the problem was.

[Pilot DAR]

When flying a C 172 or C 150/152, try deliberately opening the door in flight. Get it all trimmed up for level flight, and open a door which has an opening window (it'll give you an excellent grabbing point to close it shortly).

As you gently force the door from its 3" or so trialing position, to 4"-6" open (you really won't get it too much farther without excessive force on the door), you'll find that you have some directional control of the aircraft. Interestingly, you will find that opening the left side door will cause the aircraft to very gently roll to the right. This may seem counter intuitive - anyone want to venture a guess as to why? I have my unverified opinion as to why...

I do not suggest this for any other aircraft type, as I have no experience with that.

In addition to the front doors of 100 series Cessnas, I have reclosed doors in flight in an Aztec (difficult), and the back door of a Caravan. The clamshell doors of a C 206 opening in flight is very bad, and will probably cause a $15,000 repair bill for the side of the fuselage behind the door.

The first time I have a door open, it startled me. After that - no big deal. I have approved my 150 to fly with either door removed. Do not fly a 150 with both doors removed

[Silvaire1]

Interestingly, you will find that opening the left side door will cause the aircraft to very gently roll to the right. This may seem counter intuitive - anyone want to venture a guess as to why? I have my unverified opinion as to why...

The open door blanks flow on its side of the vertical fin, giving a yaw input that can couple to roll. Left door open thereby generates a turn to the right, similar to a right rudder input.

On a certain other type of aircraft that looks like Cessna copied its design in 1945 you can control the aircraft with the doors, throttle and elevator trim.

[Tarq57]

Interestingly, you will find that opening the left side door will cause the aircraft to very gently roll to the right. This may seem counter intuitive - anyone want to venture a guess as to why? I have my unverified opinion as to why...

More airflow being forced over the wing, at and near the root?

[mary meagher]

Horror story with a happy ending....

All you glider pilots who fly a K21 two-seater, BEWARE!!!!!

A top pilot I know, who flies Airbus heavys for a living, decided to take the club 21 up the wire solo. So of course was flying from the front seat, back seat empty.

Probably the safety arrangement for canopy latching was worn. Whatever, half way up the wire launch, at a nose up angle nearly vertical as is usual for a good winch launch, the REAR CANOPY DEPARTED ALTOGETHER. And gave the tail of the glider a good wack on the way.

The pilot stayed cool, did not panic. Flew to the top of the launch, thereby having maximum height to deal or to depart. He was of course wearing a parachute, as we all do in the UK.

And as the glider still responded to controls, he very very gingerly and gently turned back and landed on the airfield. Glider retired from service until canopy latches repaired, and we all take great care to make sure it is secured.
Before flying. Every time.

[BackPacker]

All you glider pilots who fly a K21 two-seater, BEWARE!!!!!

I have seen the K21 canopy and the flimsy mechanism that is supposed to prevent this. But it only prevents locking of the forward canopy if the rear canopy is not locked. It does not prevent a subsequent opening of the rear canopy, either on the ground or in the air. Furthermore, the nylon blocks that form the mechanism wear easily, and in one K21 there's evidence of damage where somebody forced the front closed with the rear open, and succeeding.

At the club where I learned to fly gliders it's customary to put pax, who were there for an air experience flight, in the back. Obviously with strict instructions not to open the canopy in flight. It's an accident waiting to happen, but for some reason flying the K21 from the back seat is a privilege reserved for instructors. Normal GPL pilots with a passenger endorsement (a club thing) are supposed to fly from the front seat.

Mary, the rear canopy departing altogether, was that a lucky break, or is there a mechanism, weak link or something else that ensures that the rear canopy departs in this scenario? I did witness a canopy opening during the winch launch of a Junior once, and there the pilot had the wits to pull the emergency hinge release handle so that the canopy departed altogether. But I have not seen anything in the K21 that would allow the front seat pilot to release the rear seat canopy.

[ChrisA87]

I've seen the same thing happen to a K21 2-up but at low-level but they had time to release and land ahead. BP - I imagine the force exerted on an open rear canopy during a winch launch would be enough to rip it from its hinges?

Near-vertical? Wouldn't like to be in that situation on the wire!

[BackPacker]

Chris, the K21 hinges are quite substantial. If there is no specific weak link built-in I can imagine the canopy not breaking away but instead acting as a huge airbrake.

[Jamair]

On some it is an emergency - you dont want the door to unlatch on an Aztec for example.

Having owned an Aztec I am curious as to how this is an emergency? Certainly is not considered one in the POH.

I have had doors open on a PA28 (my fault) a B58 (copilot fault) & on one very memorable occasion a pax opened the back door on a C404 at 10,000' In all cases, continue to fly the aeroplane and make a determination of whether & where you want to land. I know of two fatal prangs caused by distraction due to open doors, neither of which the door had any physical effect on the flight.

[Fuji Abound]

Having owned an Aztec I am curious as to how this is an emergency? Certainly is not considered one in the POH.

Well I did wonder reading this thread.

I had this drummed into me by an instructor and am guilty of my own earlier post in that I never thought to check the POH. I have never had a door open on the Aztec fortunately and with the latching mechanism I guess it is pretty difficult.

Have you ever had the door open in flight?

[Jamair]

Yeah, I went up on a personal training exercise with another pilot and did a number of things, including shutting down and feathering one engine, then both, checked out the glide speed and characteristics, deep stalled in power off and partial power settings in all flap and landing gear configurations, tried for VMCA......and also opened the door in flight to see how it handled. Apart from some added noise, as long as it was not being forced open into the airstream it made no difference at all. IIRC, the NZ PM (the female one that cancelled the RNZAF - Helen Clark?) was in an Aztec that had a door come open in flight as well. All in all, the Aztec would have to be the most forgiving and predictable light twin I ever flew.

[mary meagher]

I was flying my Supercub with the doors open, good fun with a well banked right turn, nothing but air between me, my passenger, and the countryside, when the ancient A4 plain brown envelope in the rear luggage compartment ripped open, and the entire contents, being the POH looseleaf, began to rise up and try to escape! The passenger managed to collect most of it, while I was cackling in the front seat, it was so funny! We only lost 3 pages altogether, and on landing, found two pages still clinging to the bracing wires on the tail.

[Piper.Classique]

I've seen the same thing happen to a K21 2-up but at low-level but they had time to release and land ahead. BP - I imagine the force exerted on an open rear canopy during a winch launch would be enough to rip it from its hinges?

Might have been me you saw. Long Mynd in the early eighties? I was in the front seat; instructor in the back. The nose up pitch was substantial but didn't last long as the canopy self destructed, with apparently an impressive shower of perspex, none of which hit the tailplane.

[Piper.Classique]

I was flying my Supercub with the doors open, good fun with a well banked right turn, nothing but air between me, my passenger, and the countryside, when the ancient A4 plain brown envelope in the rear luggage compartment ripped open, and the entire contents, being the POH looseleaf, began to rise up and try to escape! The passenger managed to collect most of it, while I was cackling in the front seat, it was so funny! We only lost 3 pages altogether, and on landing, found two pages still clinging to the bracing wires on the tail.

I lost a brand new map from our cub that way. On another flight however, the flannel left drying on the port wing strut stayed on until the landing flare two hours later, by which time it was well dried.

[ChrisA87]

I've seen the same thing happen to a K21 2-up but at low-level but they had time to release and land ahead. BP - I imagine the force exerted on an open rear canopy during a winch launch would be enough to rip it from its hinges?

Might have been me you saw. Long Mynd in the early eighties? I was in the front seat; instructor in the back. The nose up pitch was substantial but didn't last long as the canopy self destructed, with apparently an impressive shower of perspex, none of which hit the tailplane.

In the early eighties I was merely a sparkle in my Dad's eyes!

[Dream Land]

As you've learned, it's all about taking the proper steps, firstly fly the airplane. People have been having problems like this on Piper aircraft for a long time, mainly where I live, we need the door open for cooling until time for takeoff.

On my first 135 check ride in a Twin Comanche, the examiner that gave me the ride unlatched the door just after rotation, the POH had the previously mentioned procedure to deal with the problem, but my decision was to advise the tower that I'd like to return for a door problem.

The examiner thought that I hadn't read the procedure and subsequently failed the check, I have always felt he was wrong, side slipping the aircraft and reaching over one of passengers while still in the airport traffic area didn't seem prudent to me.

Happy landings!

[FlyingKiwi_73]

I most certainly learned, next time it won't be an emergency' i'll just leave it. But its prompted me to slow down assess and read the POH next time rather than leaping to what i think is the fix.

Jamair that was a King Air ''Aunty Helen'' was on. I know a crewman who was around at the time. Apparently her close protect squad guy used his telescopic baton to secure the door, not sure how, by the straps maybe? apparently they landed with the door still ajar at the intended destination.

Speaking of gliders i have had a K-13 canopy snap open on me while in the very early ground run of a winch launch. i pulled the release and having become airborne by this time did a gentle decent and landed well ahead - luckily it was Lasham with its long runway...
After that i always pushed on the canopy firmly before taking up slack,

[AdamFrisch]

Yeah, when that C152 door popped open in flight a couple of years ago over Sussex, I was greatly startled. Slammed it shut and it stayed in place, but was told that particular plane had a propensity to open doors.

[sevenstrokeroll]

I've instructed in PA 38's quite a bit

well...first off, always check the doors YOURSELF. Always push on the door and make sure the latches are engaged properly. Never trust a passenger to do anything right. Point out to the passenger how you open and close the door and how you are pushing on it to make sure it is shut.

and when in doubt...just fly wiith it slightly ajar, return to the field and fix it..and then wonder if you forgot anything else.

I still remember my PPL checkride...the examiner (one of the best pilots I've ever flown with) didn't engage the top latch on the PA 28 cherokee. Since I had learned to always push on the door before engine start I looked at him and smiled and shut the door. And if it is really too hot and you want the air flow, well check it when you do your before takeoff check and do it all the time. It isn't that hard to do or check.

look, things happen...seat belt gets left outside the door and it slaps the fuselage/door in flight...what do you do...land somewhere and fix it.

stuff happens...FLY THE FRICKING PLANE FIRST...always check everybodies seat belt/harness...check the cowling, th eoil cap everything.

an airplane is NOT an air going sort of car, its an airplane...treat it with respect.

and never let a passenger on or off the plane without the engine shut down, mixture and mags off...

you were flying over the ocean? do you carry life vests, over water devices? if you don'tk, you have to be gliding distance to the shore where I live.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Ok Ok Mr Seven Stroke Roll

stuff happens...FLY THE FRICKING PLANE FIRST...always check everybodies seat belt/harness...check the cowling, th eoil cap everything.

I did, i pulled the power put the plane in a slight decent so as not to stall and i called ATC, then i had a go. I did miss it on my cockpit checks, thats true... i do remember checking the tank lids and i usually check the doors straight after. The Pax may have had something to do with that.

an airplane is NOT an air going sort of car, its an airplane...treat it with respect.

really i just get in and go... i don't file a flight plan every time , i never check weather or notams, i never do a fuel calc and i never preflight the plane. of course i do

and never let a passenger on or off the plane without the engine shut down, mixture and mags off...

i don't even check the prop with out the keys in my hand and having checked the master.

you were flying over the ocean? do you carry life vests, over water devices? if you don'tk, you have to be gliding distance to the shore where I live.

13nm is the strait, and we were both wearing life jackets as its the law. i was as high as ATC would let me and being controlled.


Really did my post come off like i was a complete suicide victim? no need to be mean.