LPE 6 test at the NEC Flying Show
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LPE 6 test at the NEC Flying Show
Both the LAA and the CAA will be conducting Language Proficiency in English (LPE) tests for a level 6 at the Flying Show at the NEC in Birmingham, this upcoming weekend.
All UK pilots were issued with a grandfathered LPE 4 in March 2008 when the LPE requirements kicked in. An LPE 4 expires in four years, so if you have not renewed your LPE 4 by now, or upgraded to a 5 (expires in six years) or a 6 (valid for life), you can now quickly and conveniently get a six for free.
A valid LPE 4 or above is also a requirement for the issue of an EASA license, if and when your current license expires.
CAA announcement:
CAA to endorse pilots' language proficiency at the Flying Show | CAA Newsroom | About the CAA
LAA announcement on the Flyer forums:
FLYER Forums • View topic - Language Proficiency
Mods, could this be made a sticky until the show is over (Dec 2nd)?
All UK pilots were issued with a grandfathered LPE 4 in March 2008 when the LPE requirements kicked in. An LPE 4 expires in four years, so if you have not renewed your LPE 4 by now, or upgraded to a 5 (expires in six years) or a 6 (valid for life), you can now quickly and conveniently get a six for free.
A valid LPE 4 or above is also a requirement for the issue of an EASA license, if and when your current license expires.
CAA announcement:
CAA to endorse pilots' language proficiency at the Flying Show | CAA Newsroom | About the CAA
LAA announcement on the Flyer forums:
FLYER Forums • View topic - Language Proficiency
Mods, could this be made a sticky until the show is over (Dec 2nd)?
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And what will they be doing with those persons who are NOT Level 6?
.....or will they be applying the standard that seems to be applied by many FE/RTE/TREs at the moment; if you can find your way to the test then you must be Level 6.
Have we lost sight of the reason that this requirement was brought in, in the first place? To prevent recurrence of accidents which have been caused by a lack of ability to speak and understand plain English.
The UK CAA has given non-trained and non-qualified persons the authorisation to conduct informal assessments and to certify FLUENT (ONLY!) English speaking persons as Level 6. However, in defence of the CAA (that hurt!) they have stated that ONLY fluent English speaking persons can be assessed at Level 6.
Ordinarily, that would be fine as any fluent English speaking persons should be able to determine whether someone else is fluent or not without any formal training or qualification....but the hard facts of the matter are (a) NOT all FE/RTE/TRE are fluent in English themselves (and I have personally worked with some whose command of the English language leaves a lot to be desired, yet the CAA determined they were level 6 merely by virtue of their examiner qualification) and (b) many are simply NOT applying the rules and are handing out Level 6's without any regard whatsover for the person's ability or for the potential consequences of their actions - I hope they have deep pockets for the day the wheel comes off!
In my employment I have encountered many students who have openly told me that the reason they came to the UK for their CPL flight training is to get Level 6 English as their friends have told them the examiner just ticked the Level 6 box on the Examiner's Report Form without question. Some of them had appalling levels of English and I have come across at least two who were undoubtedly not even Level 4 but had been awarded Level 6 by a UK FE.
The CAA Safety Regulation Group had the opportunity to set a gold standard for English Language Proficiency but instead, by failing to implement AND enforce proper rules for FE/RTE/TREs they introduced the potential to reduce the bar to the lowest possible denominator, which, unfortunately, is what has happened.
Thank God that many airlines are requiring certificates of formal assessment (even from native English persons) and not accepting this badly flawed process applied by the CAA.
I wonder who the CAA will blame when there is an accident resulting in casualties (or even worse, fatalities) caused by a language error by a UK approved 'Level 6' whose command of English is below Level 4. I'm sure they won't accept any blame themselves but will be quick enough to blame the Examiner. I repeat my earlier statement - I hope he or she has deep pockets.
I hope the person(s) conducting the assessments at the NEC do their job properly and don't just hand out Level 6's as if the candidates have the automatic right to one just by turning up - I would bet the shirt off my back that many will be going there with that in mind. Please don't make things worse than they already are.
.....or will they be applying the standard that seems to be applied by many FE/RTE/TREs at the moment; if you can find your way to the test then you must be Level 6.
Have we lost sight of the reason that this requirement was brought in, in the first place? To prevent recurrence of accidents which have been caused by a lack of ability to speak and understand plain English.
The UK CAA has given non-trained and non-qualified persons the authorisation to conduct informal assessments and to certify FLUENT (ONLY!) English speaking persons as Level 6. However, in defence of the CAA (that hurt!) they have stated that ONLY fluent English speaking persons can be assessed at Level 6.
Ordinarily, that would be fine as any fluent English speaking persons should be able to determine whether someone else is fluent or not without any formal training or qualification....but the hard facts of the matter are (a) NOT all FE/RTE/TRE are fluent in English themselves (and I have personally worked with some whose command of the English language leaves a lot to be desired, yet the CAA determined they were level 6 merely by virtue of their examiner qualification) and (b) many are simply NOT applying the rules and are handing out Level 6's without any regard whatsover for the person's ability or for the potential consequences of their actions - I hope they have deep pockets for the day the wheel comes off!
In my employment I have encountered many students who have openly told me that the reason they came to the UK for their CPL flight training is to get Level 6 English as their friends have told them the examiner just ticked the Level 6 box on the Examiner's Report Form without question. Some of them had appalling levels of English and I have come across at least two who were undoubtedly not even Level 4 but had been awarded Level 6 by a UK FE.
The CAA Safety Regulation Group had the opportunity to set a gold standard for English Language Proficiency but instead, by failing to implement AND enforce proper rules for FE/RTE/TREs they introduced the potential to reduce the bar to the lowest possible denominator, which, unfortunately, is what has happened.
Thank God that many airlines are requiring certificates of formal assessment (even from native English persons) and not accepting this badly flawed process applied by the CAA.
I wonder who the CAA will blame when there is an accident resulting in casualties (or even worse, fatalities) caused by a language error by a UK approved 'Level 6' whose command of English is below Level 4. I'm sure they won't accept any blame themselves but will be quick enough to blame the Examiner. I repeat my earlier statement - I hope he or she has deep pockets.
I hope the person(s) conducting the assessments at the NEC do their job properly and don't just hand out Level 6's as if the candidates have the automatic right to one just by turning up - I would bet the shirt off my back that many will be going there with that in mind. Please don't make things worse than they already are.
Last edited by 2close; 30th Nov 2012 at 11:03.
I hope the person(s) conducting the assessments at the NEC do their job properly and don't just hand out Level 6's as if the candidates have the automatic right to one just by turning up - I would bet the shirt off my back that many will be going there with that in mind. Please don't make things worse than they already are.
They did
They didn't
I didn't
Don't Know
From another forum (if that's alowed)
Irv Lee, who did the assessments-
I prepared enough material to take 2 or 3 together so they all have different items to cover on whichever module of the assessment we happen to be in, and by listening to how the others answer their bits, there have been some good learning points for some pilots by doing it that way.
Agree 100%
Good job done
They did
They didn't
I didn't
Don't Know
From another forum (if that's alowed)
Irv Lee, who did the assessments-
I prepared enough material to take 2 or 3 together so they all have different items to cover on whichever module of the assessment we happen to be in, and by listening to how the others answer their bits, there have been some good learning points for some pilots by doing it that way.
Agree 100%
Good job done
Last edited by Fishtailed; 2nd Dec 2012 at 00:39.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I can't understand is why you cannot get this done at any flying school.
Does the CAA think the instructors there are crooks and are going to fake it for a bit of cash? I don't think so because they are trusted to administer the PPL tests and they get to see the actual papers, and wouldn't it be wonderful if the actual questions were available on the internet, instead of "similar" ones via the PPL Confuser and some other sources? Yet, after all these years, I am not aware of the actual exam papers having been leaked.
Does the CAA think the instructors there are crooks and are going to fake it for a bit of cash? I don't think so because they are trusted to administer the PPL tests and they get to see the actual papers, and wouldn't it be wonderful if the actual questions were available on the internet, instead of "similar" ones via the PPL Confuser and some other sources? Yet, after all these years, I am not aware of the actual exam papers having been leaked.
