Pick a field
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,443
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
While I definitely agree that the priority in any emergency including an engine failure is to fly the aircraft, I don't agree with the premise that a full cause check should not be be done in most circumstances. So for example if the reason the engine failed was because you had the mixture leaned for low cruise, descended and then added a bunch of power causing the engine failure, you are implying it would be better to go ahead and crash rather then perform a 10 second cause check which would instantly restore full power 
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: In the boot of my car!
I would agree with BPF. As BPF stated most engine stops are not instant and the fact that the engine is not running as per normal would mean that most pilots would at first adjust the mixture to see if that improved matters as well as going through the checks BPF identified.
When you talk about a student or low time pilot the last thing they want is a badly running engine.
That itself will fill them with terror and as we know terror means lack of normal brain function!
Ie simple tasks and normal reasoning go out of the window to be replaced by frozen brain syndrome.
Hence it maybe an idea to have a laminated emergency checklist in large bold and clear type which can instruct the frozen pilot in what to do?
Pace
When you talk about a student or low time pilot the last thing they want is a badly running engine.
That itself will fill them with terror and as we know terror means lack of normal brain function!
Ie simple tasks and normal reasoning go out of the window to be replaced by frozen brain syndrome.
Hence it maybe an idea to have a laminated emergency checklist in large bold and clear type which can instruct the frozen pilot in what to do?
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 4th December 2012 at 19:31.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,831
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From: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
I was taught BPF's checks from the start. Plus "fuel pump on" if present. While looking for somewhere, I started to do them. Engine reacted to pump on. Changed tanks. Flew home. Twice - Pa28 with one empty tank in US and Jodel 1050 with blocked rear tank finger-filter in Scotland.
PS Keep the engine turning while checking - otherwise you won't notice what is effective.
PS Keep the engine turning while checking - otherwise you won't notice what is effective.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,982
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From: In the boot of my car!
Plus "fuel pump on"
Fuel tank selectors is another! I know of one Cessna 340 ferried all the way from the USA to India where it was collected by an Indian pilot to move the last 50 miles to its new base, He switched the fuel off by accident and landed in a lake before working out what he had done, the poor aircraft ending up at the bottom of that lake after going all that way to be lost in the last 50 miles.
Pace
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,658
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From: Canada
I want to emphasize that my recommended engine failure practice sessions ends at the cause check. I don't think it is necessary to actually fly the PFL, simply practice choosing a landing area and doing the cause check. If you can't manage the 30 seconds this takes on every flight I think you need to reevaluate your flying plans........
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 4th December 2012 at 20:03.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,658
Likes: 501
From: Canada
The tip tank twin Cessnas have a stupidly complex fuel system, The 340 I sometimes fly has 5 separate tanks with 3 fuel selectors 5 electrical boost pumps and 9 fuel drains. Plus there are all sorts of operational gotchas. A high level of system knowledge is an absolute must if you are flying these aircraft.
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: fort sheridan, il
really you should ALWAYS be looking for a field
no matter what you fly, where you fly, when you fly...you should be looking for a place to land...just in case.
and if you are on instruments....have a working knowledge of what is nearby, be able to make at least a ''cloud break'' aproach to anyplace within range of a VOR...or enter a holding pattern that you make up on the spot in an area clear of innocents and giving you a chance.
Even in big jetere have been good reasons to just SET DOWN NOW to save everyone on board.
I know one outfit that routinely landed sabreliners on two lane highways.
use your imagination...know the ''glide'' line (see ''stick and rudder)...and know the place below the glide line in the window that you can make.
while flying the line in the DC9 my pals and I would always point out places to land...never needed em...but its fun and keeps your mind sharp.
and if you are on instruments....have a working knowledge of what is nearby, be able to make at least a ''cloud break'' aproach to anyplace within range of a VOR...or enter a holding pattern that you make up on the spot in an area clear of innocents and giving you a chance.
Even in big jetere have been good reasons to just SET DOWN NOW to save everyone on board.
I know one outfit that routinely landed sabreliners on two lane highways.
use your imagination...know the ''glide'' line (see ''stick and rudder)...and know the place below the glide line in the window that you can make.
while flying the line in the DC9 my pals and I would always point out places to land...never needed em...but its fun and keeps your mind sharp.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
Seven Stroke Roll has excellent advice, always be looking for a field! Instructors probably have good ones spotted in their habitual cruising areas. The Tug pilot before being turned loose to pull up gliders is shown suitable fields near the launchpoint. The unfortunate Australian who pulled the chute and plonked it into a nice big paddock, had to make his decision above 2,000. Wait until you are too low for the chute to deploy and your goose is properly cooked. And above 2,000' it is difficult to see the ditches.
Glider pilots must do field selection as a vital part of training before going X-country. In fact it is recommended that they study fields when driving the car round the countryside. The glider is much much easier to manage when landing in a field; when getting low, you have chosen a suitable area by 2,000', when getting lower you have chosen your field - by 1,500', and are still groveling at 800' on the downwind leg hoping to climb away. Which adds up to a lot of time lingering in the air, assessing the wind direction and strength; discovering problems with the chosen field (horses? flooding? rocks?) that may not have been noticed before....and giving you a chance to choose a better field nearby.
We also train to assess the height above the ground without reference to the altimeter; if the trees are rising up around you and the cows getting bigger, etc.
The glider is also designed to land in a field, even a brown muddy field in November....without damage or injury. They seldom turn over in a field landing. Power aircraft often do. Field landings in power aircraft more often cause injury and damage; the main thing is to arrive in control, at the slowest sensible speed, even landing on a house or in trees you can walk away from an engine failure if the approach has been properly controlled.
I think that if you have the money, a Cirrus would ease your mind. Especially in the US, where if you kill or injure yourself or a passenger, the lawyers will be queueing up. Not many power pilots have cross country gliding in their logbooks, it could make them safer pilots altogether.
Glider pilots must do field selection as a vital part of training before going X-country. In fact it is recommended that they study fields when driving the car round the countryside. The glider is much much easier to manage when landing in a field; when getting low, you have chosen a suitable area by 2,000', when getting lower you have chosen your field - by 1,500', and are still groveling at 800' on the downwind leg hoping to climb away. Which adds up to a lot of time lingering in the air, assessing the wind direction and strength; discovering problems with the chosen field (horses? flooding? rocks?) that may not have been noticed before....and giving you a chance to choose a better field nearby.
We also train to assess the height above the ground without reference to the altimeter; if the trees are rising up around you and the cows getting bigger, etc.
The glider is also designed to land in a field, even a brown muddy field in November....without damage or injury. They seldom turn over in a field landing. Power aircraft often do. Field landings in power aircraft more often cause injury and damage; the main thing is to arrive in control, at the slowest sensible speed, even landing on a house or in trees you can walk away from an engine failure if the approach has been properly controlled.
I think that if you have the money, a Cirrus would ease your mind. Especially in the US, where if you kill or injure yourself or a passenger, the lawyers will be queueing up. Not many power pilots have cross country gliding in their logbooks, it could make them safer pilots altogether.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 441
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From: UK
I was taught, in my days as a glider pilot, the 'SAW SHOWS' mnemonic.
Size
Animals
Wires
Surface
Height (sufficient to reach the field and execute an approach)
Obstacles (trees, fences, hay bales and the like)
Wind
Slope
One aspect of PFLs which tends not to be emphasized is the likelihood of a forced landing being made from a height less than the standard 2500'.
Transitting a low level route, for example, may only allow time for a straight in approach or, maybe, base and finals.
The gliding technique of flying from field to field may not be looked upon as being necessary in an SEP, but an assessment of the general area towards which you would head is definately required - that should take care of a few of the SAW SHOWS issues without too much additional thought leaving you to concentrate on final field selection and for planning and executing a succesful approach.
FOK
Size
Animals
Wires
Surface
Height (sufficient to reach the field and execute an approach)
Obstacles (trees, fences, hay bales and the like)
Wind
Slope
One aspect of PFLs which tends not to be emphasized is the likelihood of a forced landing being made from a height less than the standard 2500'.
Transitting a low level route, for example, may only allow time for a straight in approach or, maybe, base and finals.
The gliding technique of flying from field to field may not be looked upon as being necessary in an SEP, but an assessment of the general area towards which you would head is definately required - that should take care of a few of the SAW SHOWS issues without too much additional thought leaving you to concentrate on final field selection and for planning and executing a succesful approach.
FOK
