Logging of hours on foreign aircraft
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Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Gloucester
Logging of hours on foreign aircraft
I currently hold an EASA CPL/IR, and was just wondering how it would work for the logging of foreign aircraft hours i.e. a N reg aircraft. I know I can log the hours providing it in in european airspace and not crossing any international borders, but can I log IFR hours on this aircraft?
Joined: May 2001
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You can log any hours you do in any reg aircraft as long as you legal to fly on the that particular reg.
The rules and law on what you can do flying that reg is a completely seperate issue.
Many of us have several hundreds hours flying all manner of registrations IFR, night, PIC, internationally but to do so we need to insure that we are legal to be flying that reg intially and then if we are legal in that particular countries airspace.
The logging you just log what you have done. Some of the hours may not be valid for use towards currency or later license issue but you can still log them.
The rules and law on what you can do flying that reg is a completely seperate issue.
Many of us have several hundreds hours flying all manner of registrations IFR, night, PIC, internationally but to do so we need to insure that we are legal to be flying that reg intially and then if we are legal in that particular countries airspace.
The logging you just log what you have done. Some of the hours may not be valid for use towards currency or later license issue but you can still log them.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Dublin
providing it in in european airspace and not crossing any international borders
can I log IFR hours on this aircraft?
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
Agree with MJ.
As far as the N-reg is concerned - this is the result of FAR 61.3:
So the only reason you can fly an N-reg on a UK license within the UK is because the US government allows you to. (And note that the US doesn't understand the JAR-FCL and EASA thing. If your EASA license is issued by the UK authorities, you can only fly within the UK on an N-reg. But if that same EASA license is issued by the Dutch authorities, you can only fly within the Netherlands.)
Just remember that if you fly on a UK/JAR-FCL/EASA license, you have to log according to the UK/JAR-FCL/EASA ruleset, and if you fly on a US license, you have to log according to FAA ruleset. Which may be tricky in certain corner cases. For example, there are some subtle differences as far as logging P1 is concerned: In the FAA world there are situations where no less than three persons can log P1 simultaneously. No such thing under JAR-FCL/EASA, where only one person can be (and log) PIC.
If you logged P1 under one of the situation where the FAA allows you to log P1, then those P1 hours might not be used as PIC hours for the purpose of revalidating an EASA SEP rating, for instance.
And the ultimate corner case is of course if you use that FAR 61.3 provision, and fly an N-reg within the UK on a UK-issued license. Do you log according to the FAR or EASA ruleset?
As far as the N-reg is concerned - this is the result of FAR 61.3:
§ 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
(a) Pilot certificate. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person—
(1) Has a pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. However, when the aircraft is operated within a foreign country, a pilot license issued by that country may be used;
(a) Pilot certificate. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person—
(1) Has a pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. However, when the aircraft is operated within a foreign country, a pilot license issued by that country may be used;
The logging you just log what you have done.
If you logged P1 under one of the situation where the FAA allows you to log P1, then those P1 hours might not be used as PIC hours for the purpose of revalidating an EASA SEP rating, for instance.
And the ultimate corner case is of course if you use that FAR 61.3 provision, and fly an N-reg within the UK on a UK-issued license. Do you log according to the FAR or EASA ruleset?
Last edited by BackPacker; 26th November 2012 at 11:01.
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From: SoCal
In the FAA world there are situations where no less than three persons can log P1 simultaneously.
PS: I am aware of two simultaneously, it's the threesome
that sparks my interest.
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: north of barlu
Dispite my input to the flying I found it rather difficult to reach the controls from the Flight Engineers seat, so I had to log the time as E1.
I would love to know who three people in a light aircraft can all log the time as P1 as two of them are likely to have less input to the flying that I did as Flight Engineer !
I would love to know who three people in a light aircraft can all log the time as P1 as two of them are likely to have less input to the flying that I did as Flight Engineer !
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From: Amsterdam
From memory a successful flight test where the examiner was not licensed/current on the aircraft. So you would have a normal instructor in the RHS, the candidate in the LHS and the examiner observing from the back. Pilot, instructor and examiner can all log P1, as far as I can remember. But I'm not entirely sure if this was the exact scenario. It might have been something else.
It was a pretty rare and far-fetched scenario in any case, but completely legal.
It was a pretty rare and far-fetched scenario in any case, but completely legal.
Last edited by BackPacker; 26th November 2012 at 11:21.
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: north of barlu
Backpacker
Yes..... I can see that, if memory serves me well we had that situation during my training 2 pilots and an examiner, and one flight engineer, one flight engineer trainer and one flight engineer examiner, three people logging P1 and three people logging E1 !
You could hardly move in the flight deck !
You could hardly move in the flight deck !
