IMC
riverrock83, I'm soooooooo very sorry that my free advice and licensing clarification has not been to your total satisfaction.....
Anyway, wb9999 et al., fresh from the CAA:
The CAA has also agreed to amend the relevant text in the next amendment to CAP 804 to make this completely clear.
cessna24, you asked:
As you will hopefully have deduced from the CAA's response and from CAP 804, if you ever held IMCR privileges before 8 Apr 2014, even if they lapsed years ago you will still be able to renew them on a Part-FCL licence issued (or upon conversion) at any time in the future. So if they lapsed 20 years ago and you waited until 2020 to renew them, you would simply follow the same renewal process as outlined in CAP 804.
However, to exercise IMCR privileges on an EASA aeroplane after 8 Apr 2014, you will need to have converted a JAR-FCL licence (or UK non-JAR-FCL licence) to a Part-FCL licence which includes the new term IR (Restricted).
Anyway, wb9999 et al., fresh from the CAA:
An IMCR first obtained prior to 8th April 2014 can be added in the form of an EASA Instrument Rating with restrictions (IR(R)) to a UK-issued Part-FCL licence at any time in the future, including after 8th April 2014. This is in accordance with Article 4 of Regulation 1178/2011
It is only IMCRs first obtained from 8th April 2014 onwards that cannot be added to Part-FCL licences as to do so would not be the preservation of a privilege obtained before the aircrew regulation became mandatory (in this particular aspect).
It is implicit in the CAP 804 text that the IR(R) can be added to a Part-FCL licence issued after 17 September as Part-FCL licences were not issued before that date.
It is only IMCRs first obtained from 8th April 2014 onwards that cannot be added to Part-FCL licences as to do so would not be the preservation of a privilege obtained before the aircrew regulation became mandatory (in this particular aspect).
It is implicit in the CAP 804 text that the IR(R) can be added to a Part-FCL licence issued after 17 September as Part-FCL licences were not issued before that date.
cessna24, you asked:
My IMC lapsed in June this year. How long have I got to renew it before I loose it for good?
However, to exercise IMCR privileges on an EASA aeroplane after 8 Apr 2014, you will need to have converted a JAR-FCL licence (or UK non-JAR-FCL licence) to a Part-FCL licence which includes the new term IR (Restricted).
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Sarcasm noted 
. I know that your time and expertise is greatly appreciated on here...
So that is a Yes - and this is based on your reading of CAP804, which doesn't say directly (it only directly talks about JAR conversions and the UK National PPL), but implicitly suggests that if you get a Part-FCL licence, then later complete the IMC course, and get the paper work to CAA before 8th April 2014, you will receive an IR(r) on your Part-FCL license (rather than the alternative national PPL with IMC Rating).
And the basis of this, is that you can't lose the privilege of being able to add an IMCR / IR(r) to your licence before April 2014 to allow you to fly EASA aircraft in IMC in the future, which trumps the other EASA regulation that says you can't add a national rating to a Part-FCL licence.
Is that a fair summary? As I've said elsewhere, it doesn't say that you can't add a new IR(r) to an already acquired Part-FCL licence. Its just quite expensive to do something based on an untested, implicit assertion (which is why I hope someone else gets a definitive, written answer from the CAA before I start!
As I've said elsewhere - I'm looking to do my PPL skills test soon, and so start to plan out what to do with my licence to learn for the next year or so, and I would like an IR(r) to feature in there, as it seems more useful than an EIR in the UK.
. I know that your time and expertise is greatly appreciated on here...So that is a Yes - and this is based on your reading of CAP804, which doesn't say directly (it only directly talks about JAR conversions and the UK National PPL), but implicitly suggests that if you get a Part-FCL licence, then later complete the IMC course, and get the paper work to CAA before 8th April 2014, you will receive an IR(r) on your Part-FCL license (rather than the alternative national PPL with IMC Rating).
And the basis of this, is that you can't lose the privilege of being able to add an IMCR / IR(r) to your licence before April 2014 to allow you to fly EASA aircraft in IMC in the future, which trumps the other EASA regulation that says you can't add a national rating to a Part-FCL licence.
Is that a fair summary? As I've said elsewhere, it doesn't say that you can't add a new IR(r) to an already acquired Part-FCL licence. Its just quite expensive to do something based on an untested, implicit assertion (which is why I hope someone else gets a definitive, written answer from the CAA before I start!
As I've said elsewhere - I'm looking to do my PPL skills test soon, and so start to plan out what to do with my licence to learn for the next year or so, and I would like an IR(r) to feature in there, as it seems more useful than an EIR in the UK.
riverrock83, which part of
do you find difficulty in understanding?
The clarification came in an e-mail received this morning in response to my request for confirmation.
Once you have your Part-FCL PPL, you will be able to include an IR(R) in it if you pass the IMC training and testing and apply before Apr 2014.
fresh from the CAA
The clarification came in an e-mail received this morning in response to my request for confirmation.
Once you have your Part-FCL PPL, you will be able to include an IR(R) in it if you pass the IMC training and testing and apply before Apr 2014.
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BEags,
If I have to have converted my JAR-FCL PPL(A) with IMCR to EASA by 8 Apr 2014 in order to have an IR(R) added to it, will the CAA contact me to remind me or do I have to initiate this? (If you know!)
At the moment my JAR-FCL PPL(A) expires in 2016 so I don't want to find I've missed the deadline.
Tim
If I have to have converted my JAR-FCL PPL(A) with IMCR to EASA by 8 Apr 2014 in order to have an IR(R) added to it, will the CAA contact me to remind me or do I have to initiate this? (If you know!)
At the moment my JAR-FCL PPL(A) expires in 2016 so I don't want to find I've missed the deadline.
Tim
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The skills taught and learnt for the IMC rating is invaluable. Whether or not this rating actually exists ON A LICENSE after 2014 shouldn't matter.
If it doesn't why not issue a completion certificate, just like aerobatics?
After all the IMCR was designed for one to return home after inadvertent IMC encounter.
It wasn't designed to be a 15-hour easy-to-get IR with 20% of the training, which is what EASA fundamentally cannot accept.
If it doesn't why not issue a completion certificate, just like aerobatics?
After all the IMCR was designed for one to return home after inadvertent IMC encounter.
It wasn't designed to be a 15-hour easy-to-get IR with 20% of the training, which is what EASA fundamentally cannot accept.
If I have to have converted my JAR-FCL PPL(A) with IMCR to EASA by 8 Apr 2014 in order to have an IR(R) added to it, will the CAA contact me to remind me or do I have to initiate this? (If you know!)
So, in your case you either convert a couple of years before your JAR-FCL PPL(A) expires and keep your IMCR / IR(R) privileges on both EASA and non-EASA aeroplanes - or, if you're not bothered about IMCR privileges on EASA aeroplanes for a couple of years, then you can wait if you like. It's your choice!
soaringhigh650, the UK IMCR is a rating which has proved entirely safe for whatever purpose the holder has decided to use it. For about 40 years.
This nonsense about it being a 'get you home after inadvertant IMC encounter' is utter rubbish...
For example, FIs very often use it to acheive VMC above cloud to teach early attitude flying exercises, then drop down through the cloud for recovery. You should NOT need a full IR for that sort of activity! The privileges and limitations of the IMCR / IR(R) are commensurate with the training and theoretical knowledge requirements; unfortunately the rating was very poorly explained to EASA at the time when they were drawing up their "Ein Volk, eine Regel!" regulations....
As I've said elsewhere - I'm looking to do my PPL skills test soon, and so start to plan out what to do with my licence to learn for the next year or so, and I would like an IR(r) to feature in there, as it seems more useful than an EIR in the UK.
To the best of my knowledge the CAA didn't include a method of lifting the restriction on the IR(R) in its conversion report. I think it missed a trick there.
To the best of my knowledge the CAA didn't include a method of lifting the restriction on the IR(R) in its conversion report. I think it missed a trick there.
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unfortunately the rating was very poorly explained to EASA at the time
Sounds like something went badly wrong at the upper management levels of AOPA.
Last edited by soaringhigh650; 12th Nov 2012 at 16:37.
Sounds like something went badly wrong at the upper management levels of AOPA.
I suggest that you do a little more research before casting further erroneous aspersions....
Last edited by BEagle; 12th Nov 2012 at 17:23.
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AOPA didn't have a member on FCL.008, soaringhigh650, despite requests to be allowed one - which was a singular bone of contention
The UK reps on FCL.088 did not represent our national position adequately, hence the current situation.
I have nothing more to say.
I doubt whether they will expend much effort on IR(R) conversions until both the EIR and C-B IR have been passed to the comitology stage - otherwise the work could well have proven to be nugatory.
