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Old 19th October 2012 | 15:52
  #21 (permalink)  
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Ok , so a question about the walkround , checking the prop ( esp. the leading edge) for nicks and dings.

Do you do this visually or actually run your hand over it. I've heard conflicting ideas. My other half says he never touches the prop in case the mag is live but my instructor tells me to run my finger along the leading edge.

Thoughts?
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Old 19th October 2012 | 16:06
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So you have just flown from A to B to drop a pax off and are going to jump right back into the aircraft and head back to point A. From your quote it appears you would do a full walk around checking everything again.
I do ... mostly. A bit faster, and maybe I don't check every lock nut etc the second time, and if the gauges continue to make sense maybe I don't look in the tanks again. But I do walk round, I do check the oil, and I do all the cockpit checks.
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Old 19th October 2012 | 17:18
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BPF, nice to see you also mention propwash and the consideration of it's effects. A pet peeve of mine, I confess, having had my fill of stuff being blown about the hangar and my cockpit full of grass cuttings. The local flight school isn't blameless either and as far as I know doesn't teach that, why, yes, what is behind you is your business too.
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Old 19th October 2012 | 17:55
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just because the mags are switched off, definitely doesn't mean that they aren't live. A bad earth is all that's needed and you have a live mag, it's one of the reasons you do the mag check .

Always treat the prop like it's going to pop on you but running your hand down it wont cause a problem, it's only going to threaten injury when you pull it past the "click" which is something one would do with a strongarm starter . I can't see a good reason to look at the prop either way what you're looking for is evidence of corrosion or a chunk missing you should be able to see or feel it.
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Old 19th October 2012 | 18:05
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The prop should of course always be treated as 'live' in case an earth lead has failed, but merely touching the thing won't set if running!

The Chipmunk requires to be pulled through 4 compressions before starting, to check for 4 good compressions and no hydraulicing (it's an inverted engine). We just treat it as live in case it starts when doing this. In fact, the attitude to take is to be surprised if, when pulling it through, it doesn't start!

A bit like expecting the engine to fail on take off and being relieved if it doesn't, rather than being completely taken aback if it does!

Last edited by Shaggy Sheep Driver; 19th October 2012 at 18:06.
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Old 19th October 2012 | 18:08
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Re Mixture Check: My comments are aimed at the procedure for engines with carburators. The point of the exercise is to make sure that the carburator is not running too lean. If the carb is working properly the rich mixture created by the carb heat will be corrected by leaning the aircraft at run up RPM. That is the engine will go from over rich mixture to best power mixture as you lean. This will be indicated by a 20 to 50 RPM rise as you lean. If the RPM immediately drops as you lean then the carb is set too lean. This matters because a lean mixture at high power will create high CHT's and will damage the engine. In extreme cases it may even cause the engine to fail. I have snagged 2 airplanes for this. The first one turned out to have the wrong carb installed and the second one had a dirty jet.

However since you fly a fuel injected engine the purpose of the mixture check is to check the functioning of the fuel control unit. When you lean you should observe a reduction of fuel flow on the fuel flow gauge and a rise on the EGT gauge. One important check on fuel injected engines is that after full throttle is applied, is to make sure that the fuel flow is right at the max redline or even a little above the redline. Low fuel flows at high power can be caused by a variety of faults and is absolutely deadly for the engine.

Re the Prop Check: Nicks in the prop have sharp edges and the sharp edges concentrate stresses. Cracks then can develop from the stresses and in extreme case lead to blade failure. The good news is props are pretty tough so small dings should be attended to but usually are not a grounding item. Of course if in doubt consult your maintenance organization. A visual inspection is find for checking the prop but touching it is no problem. The issue is moving the blade. Even small movements could cause the engine to fire if the mags are on, particularly with a hot engine. You should always assume the prop is live and if you have to move it never wrap your fingers around the blade. Instead put your fingers tips on the middle of the flat part of the blade, press down and move your hand to move the prop with all body parts clear of the blade path. Before moving the blade make a visual check of the cockpit for mags off, mixture ICO and throttle at idle.

Since we are on the subject of walk arounds, my experience is if I am going to find anything wrong it will probably be a leaking brake, cord showing on a tire or a low nose wheel oleo, so those are things I pay particular attention to.

Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 19th October 2012 at 18:13.
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Old 19th October 2012 | 20:31
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From: In the boot of my car!
Of course leaning and mixture control is important especially on high altitude takeoffs.

Yet it is something avoided in the student world with instructors teaching students not to touch the mixture control which remains full rich for the duration of their flight.

Pace
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Old 19th October 2012 | 21:32
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Just curious, why would that be? Granted, I don't touch the flimsy trim tab on the rudder and don't bang any control to its stop either, but I always move ailerons, elevator and rudder and have a look at all visible elements. For the DA/DV 20 Katana, the POH even instructs you to check movement of the aileron linkage through a small plexiglass window on the underside of the wing, which would be impossible to do by moving the controls from the inside (unless of course one has such long arms that an airplane isn't really necessary for flying ).
As always, follow your POH. But the light aircraft I've flown all have "Don't push" written on the ailerons. I too check the bolts under the aileron that requires me to push it up. I remember my PPL books saying you shouldn't move them from the outside. The reason escapes me, maybe something to do with heavy handed pilots and the material of the surfaces, especially ailerons, seems like it wouldn't take much strength to damage.

Saying that, one of my instructors loved to move them all about so, as with many things in flying, everybody has their own ways. Just like how some instructors like me to get hands on with the prop and give it a good rub some instructors told me to treat it like its running.
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Old 19th October 2012 | 21:51
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But the light aircraft I've flown all have "Don't push" written on the ailerons.
That notice probably relates to pushing the whole aircraft back and forth by means of the ailerons. Not to pushing the ailerons up and down to check the bolts and other fittings.
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Old 19th October 2012 | 22:45
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I'm told - and tend to believe - that you can damage aluminium ailerons by gripping them in the wrong place. If you find the rivets to indicate the position of a rib in the elevator then hold the aileron at this position, then there's no danger of squeezing it and causing metal fatigue at the trailing edge.

What I have seen is ailerons with patches over the trailing edge, where this had presumably happened.
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Old 19th October 2012 | 23:58
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Hi, the original post asked what a new pilot could do to increase his piloting skills, and most of the replies seem to be related to checklist use.

There is another way to improve your skills, and that is to take several flights in a glider. You get to see climbs at 45 degrees on a winch launch, and descents at almost the same angle with full air-brakes and maybe a side-slip.
Also the adverse yaw is much more pronounced, with the real possibility of a good spin entry, if you step on the rudder at the 'right' time.

Thermal hunting is also a good practice for feeling how your machine is flying, and centering in a thermal is a whole new black art.
Gliding is a cheaper way of flying and is a whole new experience, which paid dividends in Mr Sulenberger's case.
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Old 20th October 2012 | 00:02
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Add ASI's Alive to your takeoff roll too.
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Old 20th October 2012 | 09:26
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I first went solo in 1959 (yes really). My hours has passed 10,000; on all types from Big Jets, supersonic fighters and puddle jumpers.

But I learned lots from this post.

YOU ARE NEVER TOO OLD TO LEARN!
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Old 20th October 2012 | 09:45
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Yet it is something avoided in the student world with instructors teaching students not to touch the mixture control which remains full rich for the duration of their flight.
Must be another UK specialty. It was certainly covered and practised where I learned to fly.
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Old 20th October 2012 | 11:37
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Ditto for me with regard to leaning
Although lately I've spent so much time in the circuit I don't believe I've leaned the mixture in the air for a loooooooong time
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Old 20th October 2012 | 19:55
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Thanks BPF for that excellent post, this is where Prune shines, disseminating years of experience to guys like me.

A few observations from a relative power novice who is quite happy to be corrected:

I was always taught to lean from the very first flight powered flight I had, don't know whether that's unusual or not. Something I always do when cruising regardless of altitude.

Gertrude makes the point of not checking the fuel on a walkround/second flight; it's something I think is the most important thing to do besides the oil. Takes seconds even on a Cessna.

I always run my fingertips (after checking mags etc) along the prop blade with a light touch, no point putting pressure on. Fingertips are ubersensitive, if there's anything there you're going to feel it.

Try and have some mechanical empathy, a/c will talk to you if you listen. I've flown with pilots with lots more hours than me who make me cringe; not particularly in their flying skills but more in the 'I wish you wouldn't do that to this machine' way.

Thinking about a recent thread, if you can't judge a circuit by the look of it instead of performing calculus in your head then get some more instruction.

Look out of the bloody window instead of in at the latest must have gizmo. The pilot you're going to share an accident report with is in another a/c; and he's just lurking around waiting for you to fiddle with your bits.

I know this is a bit off the wall but I think that anyone wanting a PPL should go to solo standard on a glider first. I must also add that I think anyone wanting to drive a car should complete a motorcycle course first; and if you have to ask me why then you're probably the person who needs to do a motorcycle course..
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Old 20th October 2012 | 20:03
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I must also add that I think anyone wanting to drive a car should complete a motorcycle course first
I've been saying this for decades ... I have also suggested that anyone who wants to drive a car should get a pilot's licence first, or else the driving licence training and test should be raised to the PPL level (in terms of attitude and safety). Trouble is that refusing driving licences to a large chunk of the population would not be practical politics.
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Old 20th October 2012 | 20:08
  #38 (permalink)  
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Thinking about a recent thread, if you can't judge a circuit by the look of it instead of performing calculus in your head then get some more instruction.
Or fly more circuits solo.
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Old 20th October 2012 | 20:16
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I must also add that I think anyone wanting to drive a car should complete a motorcycle course first

I've been saying this for decades ... I have also suggested that anyone who wants to drive a car should get a pilot's licence first, or else the driving licence training and test should be raised to the PPL level (in terms of attitude and safety). Trouble is that refusing driving licences to a large chunk of the population would not be practical politics.
Spot on, but as you say, impractical. Most wouldn't meet the standard so either the roads would be full of illegal (and therefore uninsured) drivers or the economy would grind to a halt as immobility takes its toll.

But glider solo before PPL? I agree! Not least because that's how I did it! However, when I was being instructed as glider stude back in the early 70s, I recall a grizzled gliding instructor saying "these people have no idea how to fly, so how can I teach them to glide? They should go get a PPL to learn flying, then come back here to learn gliding".
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Old 20th October 2012 | 20:58
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these people have no idea how to fly, so how can I teach them to glide? They should go get a PPL to learn flying, then come back here to learn gliding".
Never thought of it that way around. I have to disagree. Basic flying skills (ie the rudder is not a footrest) are best learned on a glider. I always remember my first powered instructional flight. My instructor (also a gliding instructor) knew my background. When he asked me to try a turn I put a bootful of rudder in and reefed it around at about 60 degrees. 'Er not quite' was his considered response..
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