Oxygen concentrators instead of O2 tanks?

[achimha]

Peter, looks like you're turning your 4 seater into a 3 seater by installing a 4 place oxygen system?

Would it be difficult to install the bottle somewhere in the rear cone of the airplane? Doesn't the TB20 have a factory oxygen option which you could install as a modification?

[Pace]

Ginko Biloba and an aspirin are also a good safeguard on high altitude flights even ones at levels where you do not quite need oxygen.
Pressure breathing as described was developed in WW2 AND DOES WORK.
To the system of ridding CO2 allowing a higher concentration of 02 i would add with pressure breathing on inhalation to full lung capacity tighten stomach muscles and the diaphram effectively compressing the full lung of air for a few seconds.

Pace

[peterh337]

looks like you're turning your 4 seater into a 3 seater by installing a 4 place oxygen system?

That is indeed true, unless the rear RHS passenger is willing to have the cylinder, ahem, in between her legs

Would it be difficult to install the bottle somewhere in the rear cone of the airplane?

One could but you get the issue that you cannot see the pressure gauge anymore (**). That's why planes with fitted oxygen systems (most turbocharged models) and the cylinder in the back have a high pressure pipe (one with a really tiny inside diameter, so it doesn't have to be thick) running to a pressure gauge in the panel.

However I also carry the life raft and an emergency bag on that seat, so carrying four people would mean some reorganisation anyway. Also with 3 modern adults and some junk, you are at MTOW - as with most if not all 4 seaters.

Ginko Biloba and an aspirin are also a good safeguard on high altitude flights even ones at levels where you do not quite need oxygen

I am sure it stops you getting a headache during the flight but you just end up totally sh*agged after you land, which is hardly what you want with lady passengers

Pressure breathing as described was developed in WW2 AND DOES WORK.

It must work, as you say, but it requires conscious effort. That's why the O2D2 electronic demand reg is so good; it does away with the conscious effort (apart from having to keep your mouth shut ) all the way to FL200.

(**) and if you can't reach the valve you cannot turn the gas on or off. With a demand regulator, there isn't any flow (in theory) if nobody is drawing anything out of the cannulas, but there is a tiny leakage. With a mask, you can run that with the O2D2 as well but often they are constant-flow. I need to be able to reach that valve, and normally I reach over and shut it off when descending through a few thousand feet, just in case I forget later.

Now that I think of it, I think fitted o2 systems must be routing the main gas flow all the way to the panel first... otherwise where do you shut it off after each flight?

[Pace]

Peter

You probably pressure breath with the Girlfriend without realizing it

A cylinder that size between the RHS Females legs would be wishful thinking well by her anyway and very uncomfortable

Pace

[peterh337]

Not if she is into horseriding

[Pace]

Peter

The Seneca Five had a very neat built in system to supply six persons with attachment points set in the ceiling.
The masks would attach to those points.
Portable bottles are great for seasoned fliers but disconcerting for nervous fliers.
Flying over weather with two female business Pax in the back I was forced up to FL190 to cross weather and icing enroute to Belgium.
The one lady was perfectly happy and relaxed breathing oxygen the other freaked out and started hyperventilating (I have that effect on female PAX)
Once we had cleared the weather I descended down to non oxygen levels.
The freaked out PAX would not remove her mask and remained with it on till touchdown.
I do not know what she would have made of entering an aircraft full of bottles and pipework?

As stated I do vaguely remember a mod being offered on unpressurised aircraft which was door seals and other bits and pieces to limit air escaping! It was supposed to be good up to 18000 feet

Pace

[Golf-Sierra]

As stated I do vaguely remember a mod being offered on unpressurised aircraft which was door seals and other bits and pieces to limit air escaping! It was supposed to be good up to 18000 feet

It didn't coincide with the 1st of April by any chance?


Golf-Sierra

[peterh337]

I would never advocate oxygen (cannulas etc) for paying passengers, for "non responsible" kids, or for anybody who is nervous anyway.

For those, an entry level is a PA46.

If it has to be a twin (paying passengers) then you have to stick to mission profiles which can be scud run e.g. the C.I. to UK S. Coast kind of run. Or move to a 421 or higher...

But the whole "concept" of oxygen is much simpler and more comfortable than most people think.

You get comfortable and safe flying at higher altitudes, better IFR routings, more ATC co-operation...

People go to all kinds of contorted lengths to avoid using oxygen but really it's easy.

What I find sad is to read of fatal accidents which - pilot / decisionmaking related factors notwithstanding - would simply not have happened if they had used oxygen to get themselves to a decent altitude.

[achimha]

I agree, oxygen hardly means any discomfort if done right. I have a similar setup like Peter but builtin with the O2D2. Even after several hours in FL160-200, I do not feel any extra exhaustion compared to a flight below 10,000ft. The cannulas work great and you don't notice their presence after some time. I usually have passengers put them on before takeoff and tell them it's just for their comfort, there is no danger of suffocation. The O2D2 automatically kicks in when passing FL100 (configurable). Another huge benefit of the O2D2 is that you don't have that constant flow of super dry and cold air into your nose.

I only carry masks for emergency and small children.