London Information any use?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wales
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
London Information any use?
Hi Guys, when I fly local to Manchester / Liverpool it is always nice to contact Liverpool Approach for a 'Basic Service'. The benefits are that I can hear local traffic.. some on the North Wales coast, some over Seaforth and maybe some over Oulton Park... It gives me some clue as to where everyone is and if they are likely to bump into me. Also Liverpool's ATC will give you the unofficial radar service and let you know if someone is on a collision course.
However if I fly into the Midlands / Wales area, the only service to be offered is 'London Information'. On a good day this is crowded with planes coasting in or coasting out at Lydd or Dover, these are of no real concern to me in avoiding any hazardous conflict. So that begs the question... What use is 'London Information' to anyone north of the M25?
Even though they give you a Squalk (1177.) they have no Radar screen, and my guess is that they just have a large Chart with Post-It notes on, to record any Notams or Events. I was once told by them that one valley had a search and rescue mission ongoing... by the time I deciphered their Lattitude and Longitude, I was several tens of miles away.
From listening to Airband over the years, I got to know which frequencies were used in which areas, say 133.6 from Wirral to Berry-Head, but if you ever contact them they are not interested unless you have turbofans under each wing. They suggest you call London Information...
Pete
However if I fly into the Midlands / Wales area, the only service to be offered is 'London Information'. On a good day this is crowded with planes coasting in or coasting out at Lydd or Dover, these are of no real concern to me in avoiding any hazardous conflict. So that begs the question... What use is 'London Information' to anyone north of the M25?
Even though they give you a Squalk (1177.) they have no Radar screen, and my guess is that they just have a large Chart with Post-It notes on, to record any Notams or Events. I was once told by them that one valley had a search and rescue mission ongoing... by the time I deciphered their Lattitude and Longitude, I was several tens of miles away.
From listening to Airband over the years, I got to know which frequencies were used in which areas, say 133.6 from Wirral to Berry-Head, but if you ever contact them they are not interested unless you have turbofans under each wing. They suggest you call London Information...
Pete
Last edited by phiggsbroadband; 22nd Sep 2012 at 10:21.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England & Scotland
Age: 63
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Err...
It is an information service, not a LARS service. It is very useful if you want any information. For example, I asked them for the surface wind estimation for a private site I was heading into. They gave me - after a very short delay - the wind at two close by GA fields.
It is an information service, not a LARS service. It is very useful if you want any information. For example, I asked them for the surface wind estimation for a private site I was heading into. They gave me - after a very short delay - the wind at two close by GA fields.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
London information are just that a great information service for anything you need to know.
I have called them while 200 miles away over France to get some info I need!
They are also good for getting clearances into CAS etc.
Where you are in areas where you cannot get a RAS they are the next best thing as its better to be in contact with someone rather than no one.
They will give you info on known traffic but not the sort of traffic separation available from a radar service.
But they know everything probably even the best restaurants at your destination (only joking)
Not very long ago I had a very odd radio problem loosing contact with approach and tower into a busy airport on an instrument approach.
Nothing worked so while dialing in 7600 tried London Info who strangely came in loud and clear! explained the situation and used them as an in between.
Love them!
Pace
I have called them while 200 miles away over France to get some info I need!
They are also good for getting clearances into CAS etc.
Where you are in areas where you cannot get a RAS they are the next best thing as its better to be in contact with someone rather than no one.
They will give you info on known traffic but not the sort of traffic separation available from a radar service.
But they know everything probably even the best restaurants at your destination (only joking)
Not very long ago I had a very odd radio problem loosing contact with approach and tower into a busy airport on an instrument approach.
Nothing worked so while dialing in 7600 tried London Info who strangely came in loud and clear! explained the situation and used them as an in between.
Love them!
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 21st Sep 2012 at 18:21.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is an information service, not a LARS service.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England & Scotland
Age: 63
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not following.
We do that also. There are many opportunities to use LARS service or to speak with approach ATC. London Information is an information service
We do that also. There are many opportunities to use LARS service or to speak with approach ATC. London Information is an information service
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 34
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find it useful and reassuring especially when position reports are given. A few months ago I was heading back to Barton from Shobdon and London Information gave me the weather in Manchester en-route. Also, the lady on that day had a lovely voice which is always a good reason to give them a call ;-)
Easier just to read it off the plog than faff around with GPSs, surely?
Much less faff than mentally adding leg estimates to last fix
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
1 button press and I have an eta displayed for all route waypoints
This does rather depend on whether one has bothered to fill in the ETA times on the plog, of course, so actually I am more likely to use the GPS
The most recent occasion on which I had to give an ETA was an IMCr revalidation test, a couple of days ago, which involved an approach I'd not prepared and never done before to an airfield I'd never visited before where the DME and the initial approach fix were not co-located and the GPS was switched off. So I guessed (based on the DME groundspeed readout except I wasn't really going quite in that direction or quite the same distance). And was then told to remain six minutes' flying time away from the IAF ... so I guessed again ... but got clearance to the beacon before it became a serious worry.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my experience many countries in the developed world provides FIS from the approach or en-route units using radar derived data. Consequently you can be proactively cleared through airspace easier.
Where you are in areas where you cannot get a RAS they are the next best thing as its better to be in contact with someone rather than no one.
Plus, you can ask London info almost anything and they will come up every time. What's the weather in Southampton? Inverness? is whatever danger area active?
And on the day of the last world cup final, the most asked question, "What's the score". He even had the courtesy to add, those who do not wish to know should turn the volume momentarily down now...
When did you ever get such a brilliant service from a radar controller?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK, mainly
Age: 39
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From listening to Airband over the years, I got to know which frequencies were used in which areas, say 133.6 from Wirral to Berry-Head, but if you ever contact them they are not interested unless you have turbofans under each wing. They suggest you call London Information...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sometimes more than an information service!
As a PPL student on a solo nav I had reason to be grateful for their pro-active approach: they called me to warn me that the airfield I was heading to would most likely be closed when I got there.
They, (and a very busy FI behind the scenes), sorted me out.
I am still grateful.
As a PPL student on a solo nav I had reason to be grateful for their pro-active approach: they called me to warn me that the airfield I was heading to would most likely be closed when I got there.
They, (and a very busy FI behind the scenes), sorted me out.
I am still grateful.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plog - what plog.
Twin glass screens. twin Garmins, one button and full FPL will all estimates, my only problem is remembering not to give estimates to the exact minute so as not to look a complete pr**.
Do you really keep a hand written plog. It is very quaint!
Only kidding.
Twin glass screens. twin Garmins, one button and full FPL will all estimates, my only problem is remembering not to give estimates to the exact minute so as not to look a complete pr**.
Do you really keep a hand written plog.
It is very quaint!Only kidding.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 21st Sep 2012 at 20:46.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Plog - what plog.
Twin glass screens. twin Garmins, one button and full FPL will all estimates, my only problem is remembering not to give estimates to the exact minute so as not to look a complete pr**.
Do you really keep a hand written plog. It is very quaint!
Twin glass screens. twin Garmins, one button and full FPL will all estimates, my only problem is remembering not to give estimates to the exact minute so as not to look a complete pr**.
Do you really keep a hand written plog.
It is very quaint!
I explained this to a retired examiner thus: "I work in computers, I know too much about them to believe that all the screens can't go blank at once".
He said "I'm not going to try to claim that they can't; my son flies A380s and he knows perfectly well that all the screens do sometimes go blank at once".
Last edited by Gertrude the Wombat; 21st Sep 2012 at 21:04.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: An ATC centre this side of the moon.
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phiggsbroadband..
I think you will find that both London and Scottish information are slightly more technical than that.
Although not classed as a radar both London/Scottish have a FID " Flight Information Display" This is an anti airspace infringement tool and is there to assist the FISO in preventing a possible airspace/danger area infringement.
I think you may now realise reading the previous post's that my colleagues at London Information are very well appreciated by all that take the time to call....like wise up here in Scotland I am pretty sure that the service provided by myself and colleagues at "Scottish Info" is thought to be of some use and appreciated too.
Even though they give you a Squalk (1155.) they have no Radar screen, and my guess is that they just have a large Chart with Post-It notes on, to record any Notams or Events.
Although not classed as a radar both London/Scottish have a FID " Flight Information Display" This is an anti airspace infringement tool and is there to assist the FISO in preventing a possible airspace/danger area infringement.
I think you may now realise reading the previous post's that my colleagues at London Information are very well appreciated by all that take the time to call....like wise up here in Scotland I am pretty sure that the service provided by myself and colleagues at "Scottish Info" is thought to be of some use and appreciated too.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
London Information are top notch, they've been very helpful to me several times, including once when my engine started to play up eight miles out over the Irish Sea, which turned out to be a non event, but you don't know that at the moment it happens!
The squawk you get is 1177 and you can get all kinds of useful information from them, including the winner of the men's singles at Wimbledon, which I heard passed to the Red Arrows when on the way home from Le Touquet last Summer.
I've never been far enough North to use Scottish Information. I have this picture in my head of Gregor Fisher and the Outer Hebridies Broadcasting Corporation. I'm sure it's not really like that.
The squawk you get is 1177 and you can get all kinds of useful information from them, including the winner of the men's singles at Wimbledon, which I heard passed to the Red Arrows when on the way home from Le Touquet last Summer.
I've never been far enough North to use Scottish Information. I have this picture in my head of Gregor Fisher and the Outer Hebridies Broadcasting Corporation. I'm sure it's not really like that.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gertrude - twin IFR GPSs and twin glass screens is a reasonable amount of redundancy. There is a moving map GPS in the flight bag as well. In all seriousness a dual screen, dual GPS failure is enough of an emergency to land asap if for no other reason than almost certainly there is an even more serious underlying problem. The PLOGs gone and its a diversion. With enough redundancies I am not sure there is any merit in a handwritten plog and I am also not sure how it will help.
Sorry for the topic drift and as for London Info - its a brilliant service. Well done to those who man the service and thank you.
Sorry for the topic drift and as for London Info - its a brilliant service. Well done to those who man the service and thank you.