lucky escape after collision and beach landing in Holland
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Hang on. It looks like the Cub and the Cessna were in a deliberate video shoot.
http://jdtvnieuwsbullet.********.nl/
JDTV has been following a campaign ("Cannacampagne") of a few soft drugs dealers that protest against the "wietpas". (A card that entitles you to buy soft drugs; without it you can't. And the card is only given to Dutch citizens, to prevent foreigners from buying drugs over here.) Their blog lists several interviews and other items about this. The campaign apparently paid for the banner (maybe together with the political party SP), and JDTV presumably arranged the Cessna flight.
It's going to be interesting to see the preparation that the Cessna and the Cub pilots did for this flight, the license and experience levels of the pilots involved and so forth. But I feel a few holes in the Swiss cheese lining up already.
http://jdtvnieuwsbullet.********.nl/
JDTV has been following a campaign ("Cannacampagne") of a few soft drugs dealers that protest against the "wietpas". (A card that entitles you to buy soft drugs; without it you can't. And the card is only given to Dutch citizens, to prevent foreigners from buying drugs over here.) Their blog lists several interviews and other items about this. The campaign apparently paid for the banner (maybe together with the political party SP), and JDTV presumably arranged the Cessna flight.
It's going to be interesting to see the preparation that the Cessna and the Cub pilots did for this flight, the license and experience levels of the pilots involved and so forth. But I feel a few holes in the Swiss cheese lining up already.
Last edited by BackPacker; 12th Sep 2012 at 15:05.
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Details are being considered here, while, in my opinion, a main theme is being passed by quietly.
The aircraft which is lower, slower, or being overtaken, has the right of way, thus the higher, faster, overtaking aircraft must give way (actively prevent a collision). That evidently did not happen in this case. Regardless of any intended formation, the Cessna pilot (who was obviously both higher and faster) is solely responsible for assuring that the airspace he is about to enter is unoccupied by lower slower aircraft. He has to do whatever it takes to accomplish that - there is no excuse.
If formation flying with either the Cub or the Husky was not prearranged, then the Cessna pilot also seems negligent to me in that he did form up on at least one of the aircraft without prior agreement with the pilot(s), which in Canada is a regulatory requirement for formation flying. I don't think that the actual distance between aircraft is expressly stated, but if you hit one of them, you were too close! You're not allowed to just come up alongside another aircraft at any close distance, without prior agreement. The radio call "Hey XYZ, I'm coming up on your right.", and acceptance from the other pilot meets the minimum requirement for prior agreement, though is still short of safe, because it lacks the "what if" element of the ground briefing.
The aircraft which is lower, slower, or being overtaken, has the right of way, thus the higher, faster, overtaking aircraft must give way (actively prevent a collision). That evidently did not happen in this case. Regardless of any intended formation, the Cessna pilot (who was obviously both higher and faster) is solely responsible for assuring that the airspace he is about to enter is unoccupied by lower slower aircraft. He has to do whatever it takes to accomplish that - there is no excuse.
If formation flying with either the Cub or the Husky was not prearranged, then the Cessna pilot also seems negligent to me in that he did form up on at least one of the aircraft without prior agreement with the pilot(s), which in Canada is a regulatory requirement for formation flying. I don't think that the actual distance between aircraft is expressly stated, but if you hit one of them, you were too close! You're not allowed to just come up alongside another aircraft at any close distance, without prior agreement. The radio call "Hey XYZ, I'm coming up on your right.", and acceptance from the other pilot meets the minimum requirement for prior agreement, though is still short of safe, because it lacks the "what if" element of the ground briefing.
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And what happened to the rule about overtaking on the right?
From what I can see the Cessna pilot is entirely at fault here. Maybe he thought that since he was wearing his Hi-Viz everyone else would manoeuvre around him.
From what I can see the Cessna pilot is entirely at fault here. Maybe he thought that since he was wearing his Hi-Viz everyone else would manoeuvre around him.
I, too, believe the Cub pilot saw this situation developing.
At 3.14, before he made the hand signals, you can see him bank right, lower his head and look to his 7 or 8 o'clock. (The only way to look in that position from a Cub). Presumably, he was looking at the approaching Cessna.
Then, he must have then been between a rock and a hard place. To turn to the right, would bring the Cessna to the right, and not have been a realistic move with the Husky between them. To turn to the left, towards the Husky, was also impractical.
If you stop the video at 4.07 you can see, after the Cessna and Husky separate, the Husky appears to have full left flap down (you cannot see the right flap) and full left aileron applied. Presumably, therefore, he had assymetric flap.
The Husky pilot would have found it very difficult, almost impossible, to turn left.
In a way they may have been very fortunate that they stayed together and the Cessna "forced" them both to the left, away from the Cub and towards the beach, where the Husky pilot need to land immediately
At 3.14, before he made the hand signals, you can see him bank right, lower his head and look to his 7 or 8 o'clock. (The only way to look in that position from a Cub). Presumably, he was looking at the approaching Cessna.
Then, he must have then been between a rock and a hard place. To turn to the right, would bring the Cessna to the right, and not have been a realistic move with the Husky between them. To turn to the left, towards the Husky, was also impractical.
If you stop the video at 4.07 you can see, after the Cessna and Husky separate, the Husky appears to have full left flap down (you cannot see the right flap) and full left aileron applied. Presumably, therefore, he had assymetric flap.
The Husky pilot would have found it very difficult, almost impossible, to turn left.
In a way they may have been very fortunate that they stayed together and the Cessna "forced" them both to the left, away from the Cub and towards the beach, where the Husky pilot need to land immediately
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If nothing else I'm glad to have learnt how to say "what the f***" in Dutch
Also, apologies to any "Wimmin" present, but I've got to say that little Dutch girl's a sight for sore eyes.......phwoooaarr
Also, apologies to any "Wimmin" present, but I've got to say that little Dutch girl's a sight for sore eyes.......phwoooaarr
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If the Cessna and Cub were in formation, who was the lead?
I would have expected it to be the Cessna, with the Cub formating on them. Assuming this to be the case, then it is the Cessna's responsibility to clear the airspace he is descending his formation into. Basic stuff, moving the nose out of the way for a look before starting the descent as per ex 8.1. The Cessna pilot (leader) should not have been looking at the Cub at all.
I would have expected it to be the Cessna, with the Cub formating on them. Assuming this to be the case, then it is the Cessna's responsibility to clear the airspace he is descending his formation into. Basic stuff, moving the nose out of the way for a look before starting the descent as per ex 8.1. The Cessna pilot (leader) should not have been looking at the Cub at all.
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I've got to say that little Dutch girl's a sight for sore eyes.
Last edited by peterh337; 28th Sep 2012 at 13:55.
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I really don't think the Cessna was in formation with anything or that the two banner towing aircraft were other than coincidentally operating in the same area although they probably were aware of each other, certainly the Cub seems to be aware of the presence of the Husky. But it looks to me like the Cessna just happened to be flying in the same area, spotted the Cub but not the Husky and chose to pass close to have a look. With the Cessna pilot's, and his passengers', attention out to the right he clearly was unaware of the Husky but had he overtaken the Cub properly then this particular incident would not have occurred.
Had the Cub and the Husky been part of a banner towing team I would expect them to have radio contact so that the Cub might have been able to warn the Husky of the impending midair.
Had the Cessna and the Cub been flying a photo shoot surely they would have had radio contact so that a verbal warning could have been given. Furthermore, if on a photo shoot the Cub would have been the 'lead' and, since he was clearly aware of the Husky, would have had a duty to lead his flight out of danger.
Had the Cub and the Husky been part of a banner towing team I would expect them to have radio contact so that the Cub might have been able to warn the Husky of the impending midair.
Had the Cessna and the Cub been flying a photo shoot surely they would have had radio contact so that a verbal warning could have been given. Furthermore, if on a photo shoot the Cub would have been the 'lead' and, since he was clearly aware of the Husky, would have had a duty to lead his flight out of danger.
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Furthermore, if on a photo shoot the Cub would have been the 'lead' and, since he was clearly aware of the Husky, would have had a duty to lead his flight out of danger.
