Buying a light aircraft
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“Vans RV8/RV7, the tailwheel version. Imports can be total garbage but the UK home built ones tend to be very good, even if they aren't they'll provide good economy for range and are likely to be well equipped for IFR flight, if not you can use the £50k you'll have left over to equip for IF.
All of the RVs are fast up to about 200mph, many of them can/do run on MOGAS.”
Warning!
In the UK you are not allowed to fly Vans RV8/RV7 in IMC (or any VLA or Permit machine) and none are approved for Mogas.
Rod1
All of the RVs are fast up to about 200mph, many of them can/do run on MOGAS.”
Warning!
In the UK you are not allowed to fly Vans RV8/RV7 in IMC (or any VLA or Permit machine) and none are approved for Mogas.
Rod1
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Some might say that's a bonus. My wife for instance has absolutely no desire to go flying in any aircraft,
On the Socata parts, I think you probably hit the nail on the head with regard to the maint shop
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Rod I did mention that no permit aircraft for the moment are allowed to fly IFR 
but the LAA are working successfully toward that goal. CS VLA on the other hand will never have the same permission.
As for not being run on mogas, you're absolutely right. I am convinced that people do, inspite of there not being any permission for it. I am also quite sure that people fuel from the pumps despite no aircraft being approved for the levels of ethanol found in pretty much all forecourt petrol these days. And people are not dropping out of the sky as a result. I'm not advocating it of course . UL91 where available!
That said, the speed makes up for the cost difference.
but the LAA are working successfully toward that goal. CS VLA on the other hand will never have the same permission.As for not being run on mogas, you're absolutely right. I am convinced that people do, inspite of there not being any permission for it. I am also quite sure that people fuel from the pumps despite no aircraft being approved for the levels of ethanol found in pretty much all forecourt petrol these days. And people are not dropping out of the sky as a result
. I'm not advocating it of course . UL91 where available!That said, the speed makes up for the cost difference.
Last edited by Dan the weegie; 4th Sep 2012 at 13:15.
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the LAA are working successfully toward that goal
You may find it is a Pyrrhic victory in some cases, when you look at the airspace-mandated equipment carriage requirements for enroute IFR, and these will not go away.
IFR flight in the US Experimental category is workable to a significant degree because they don't require the carriage of very much.
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I agree, I'm definitely not keen on the concept of flying IMC in a light single! VFR on top on a stable day no problem but in crap weather when you're required to take vectors and don't know what's in front of you... eep!
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IMC in a light single is a non-issue (I have thus far logged ~150hrs of it, out of 1500hrs) but the airframe needs to be up to the job both electrically and (this one is a lot more debatable) structurally given the increased expectation of turbulence.
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'LAAs can't fly abroad, well not without hassle, except where there are reciprocals'.
What a load of tosh!
Having flown to most European countires in LAA machines I would be very interested to hear where in Europe a LAA can't go?
What a load of tosh!
Having flown to most European countires in LAA machines I would be very interested to hear where in Europe a LAA can't go?
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Hi Dan
“That said, the speed makes up for the cost difference.”
You know – I have never been able to make that calc work – what speed / LPH are you using?
Peter – If I took one of the originally IFR approved Jodel’s and wanted to get it reapproved under some new regulation do you really think that the wooden airframe would be an issue… Lots and lots of such aircraft on the LAA and I strongly suspect that getting an originally approved aircraft like a Jodel 140 or an Auster approved will be much more straightforward than a homebuilt for the first wave of LAA IFR.
Rod1
“That said, the speed makes up for the cost difference.”
You know – I have never been able to make that calc work – what speed / LPH are you using?
Peter – If I took one of the originally IFR approved Jodel’s and wanted to get it reapproved under some new regulation do you really think that the wooden airframe would be an issue… Lots and lots of such aircraft on the LAA and I strongly suspect that getting an originally approved aircraft like a Jodel 140 or an Auster approved will be much more straightforward than a homebuilt for the first wave of LAA IFR.
Rod1
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I wonder if the OP has considered a diesel powered plane?
PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions
This example has the more modern (and reliable!) 2.0 diesel and sits in a very proven and sturdy airframe. Plenty of bag space too! For €90,000 I would expect it to be in very good condition with some half decent kit.
I flew the older 1.7 diesel PA28, loved the FADEC control and I guess the club loved the economy!
I can only guess that fuel costs and AVGas availability will become more of an issue in the future!
PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions
This example has the more modern (and reliable!) 2.0 diesel and sits in a very proven and sturdy airframe. Plenty of bag space too! For €90,000 I would expect it to be in very good condition with some half decent kit.
I flew the older 1.7 diesel PA28, loved the FADEC control and I guess the club loved the economy!
I can only guess that fuel costs and AVGas availability will become more of an issue in the future!
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I think what I meant was when comparing my putt putt to the 160kts RV4 my putt putt is approved for Mogas (C90-8F Super Cub) whereas the RV is only approved for AVGAS. Of course I'm hardly comparing apples with apples.
my putt putt is approved for Mogas (C90-8F Super Cub) whereas the RV is only approved for AVGAS. Of course I'm hardly comparing apples with apples.
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Having flown to most European countires in LAA machines I would be very interested to hear where in Europe a LAA can't go?
But you know that
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“No ICAO CofA, so cannot fly internationally without a permission from each country.”
Quite correct – so in 1980 almost all of Europe signed an agreement allowing homebuilt aircraft free movement, so we all tour Europe (with one or two exceptions) without hindrance – but then you did not know that…
Rod1
Quite correct – so in 1980 almost all of Europe signed an agreement allowing homebuilt aircraft free movement, so we all tour Europe (with one or two exceptions) without hindrance – but then you did not know that…
Rod1
What about the Robin DR400? Seems to tick all the boxes and there is a large range of engine/propellor and cabin sizes, even diesel variants now. Complete range of prices for second-hand ones.
There's the "President" if you want a really spacious version. They're all extremely nice to fly, as well...
There's the "President" if you want a really spacious version. They're all extremely nice to fly, as well...
Thread Starter
Really want new, don't want tandem. Want toe brakes. Need to specify my own avionics/instrument fit. Thinking of analogue instruments +
SL30
GTS 328 transponder
GI106
Garmin GMX200 or Flymap XL (comments?)
SL30
GTS 328 transponder
GI106
Garmin GMX200 or Flymap XL (comments?)
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You might want to consider just about any transponder other than the 328. It is the only one which cannot do ES (ADS-B functionality) which is likely to come in in the medium term as part 3 of the CAA / EASA aircraft interoperability plan.
Rod1
Rod1
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Yeah, there's definitely better and easier to maintain transponders out there . Trig make belters. We had a GTX 328 in a Warrior and the encoder failed, it cost the price of a new trig unit plus fitting (which was a crazy sum for 3 minutes work!) to replace.
Buying new factory built limits you as to what's available.
For that money, I can think of 3 planes that you can buy off the factory floor that are side by side and none of them really reach the speed you're after. There will be a few others but none that I'd want to buy or perhaps that I'm aware of but they definitely cannot and will not be able to fly IFR.
RV7 recently built by a well known decent builder is in my opinion your best bet you can change the avionics relatively cheaply to whatever you want. Fast economical, fun, plenty of loadspace, range and flexibility to do what you want without taking it from the CAA in charges.
. Trig make belters. We had a GTX 328 in a Warrior and the encoder failed, it cost the price of a new trig unit plus fitting (which was a crazy sum for 3 minutes work!) to replace.Buying new factory built limits you as to what's available.
For that money, I can think of 3 planes that you can buy off the factory floor that are side by side and none of them really reach the speed you're after. There will be a few others but none that I'd want to buy
or perhaps that I'm aware of but they definitely cannot and will not be able to fly IFR.RV7 recently built by a well known decent builder is in my opinion your best bet you can change the avionics relatively cheaply to whatever you want
. Fast economical, fun, plenty of loadspace, range and flexibility to do what you want without taking it from the CAA in charges.
Last edited by Dan the weegie; 4th Sep 2012 at 17:25.
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As other have said avoid the Garmin 328 or you will be replacing it in a short time. No ADSB Squitter.
Also I had your line of thinking with the SL30 when I built my Sportcruiser, but wouldn't do it again if I was building now...the VOR for nav purposes will be defunct in a few years and you can't fly an ILS on a LAA permit aircraft currently anyway. Save the money and buy a decent EFIS (not Dynon Skyview).
Also I had your line of thinking with the SL30 when I built my Sportcruiser, but wouldn't do it again if I was building now...the VOR for nav purposes will be defunct in a few years and you can't fly an ILS on a LAA permit aircraft currently anyway. Save the money and buy a decent EFIS (not Dynon Skyview).
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A few things I don't understand from the posts above, the first of these is how an encoder replacement cost more than a Trig transponder ?
The second thing is why the DR400 is not getting a few more votes, it seems to fit the bill on most counts ( and I have a recent one with toe brakes, zero time Engine and new paint for sale )
The second thing is why the DR400 is not getting a few more votes, it seems to fit the bill on most counts ( and I have a recent one with toe brakes, zero time Engine and new paint for sale )
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No idea about the DR400.
I was also confused by the cost of the encoder. The excuse I was told "that's the expensive one, there is a cheaper one but it would be really tough to fit properly (which I have since discovered is total codswollop)" You may make your own assessment. The same place also charged us several hundred pounds each year for a "Radio Annual" which isn't necessary or required as part of the ARC renewal but sadly there is nowhere else to go for avionics. You live and learn.
I was also confused by the cost of the encoder. The excuse I was told "that's the expensive one, there is a cheaper one but it would be really tough to fit properly (which I have since discovered is total codswollop)" You may make your own assessment. The same place also charged us several hundred pounds each year for a "Radio Annual" which isn't necessary or required as part of the ARC renewal but sadly there is nowhere else to go for avionics. You live and learn.