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unprofessional flying

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unprofessional flying

Old 2nd Sep 2012, 14:00
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unprofessional flying

To the pilot of the aircraft that flew over the parachute club dropzone at Errol (7miles west of Dundee) without speaking to either the DZ, Dundee ATC, Leuchars radar or Scottish at 1330 local today. On a heading of approx 040. I hope your proud of your standard of flying. Your actions nearly cost the lives of 4 skydivers as well as your own.

Rant over. Slowly calming down now.

Floppy
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 14:06
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I've seen that happen at Langar near me. You have to ask how some people got their license.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 14:54
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Didn't you get the reg?
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 15:13
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Didnt get it due to the sun in my eyes. Called Dundee, Luechars and Scottish but they had no joy as they werent speaking to it. If i did get the reg i wouldnt have posted on here. I would be having a one way conversation with them by now.

Floppy
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 15:29
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Sure enough you'll get replies enough, with ample wagging of old wise beards, but not the one you hope for ("sorry, twas me, I'll never do it again")
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 15:55
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I would be having a one way conversation with them by now.
Such is the way of many now...

How do you know it wasn't a student on their first solo XCC, got a bit lost, panicking etc? In which case it really wouldn't help to start the call with accusations and a generally destructive tone.

It probably was some d**k who didn't care where they were, but flying's the wrong game to be making assumptions in. Need facts.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 16:46
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This says to me to always be vigilent and never take anything for granted?
Do not drop parachutists unless you are absolutely sure the airspace is clear and some clot has missed your airspace on his chart, is lost or off course and is about to drive through?

I almost hit a glider in cloud a few years back while flying a twin in the descent so take nothing for granted including your airspace.

Pace
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 17:34
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I almost hit a glider in cloud a few years back while flying a twin in the descent so take nothing for granted including your airspace.
I kind of agree but if you're plummeting to earth at 120mph you haven't got the chance to getting out of the way. Someone who looks like they may be about to infringe a drop zone is already too late if you're taking the minute or so drop from 15,000'. I was lurking about the general area of Langar last year when I heard a guy give his pos rep as 'Overhead Langar' to East Midlands to which East Mids gave the reply 'Live drop live drop vacate immediately'. But if you're overhead any way is the quickest way out. I just can't get my head around some pilots, who the hell would fly over a drop zone unless they were specifically told it was cold?

Last edited by thing; 2nd Sep 2012 at 17:36.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 17:44
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Unfortunately our DZ is bust on an almost daily basis. Even pilots are told to keep clear they ignore it. I heard a guy argue with the controller once when I was on descent, he wa told there was a twin turboprop passing FL120 and he tried to argue that he would belong gone before I got there. The controller pointed out I was coming down at 7,000fpm......
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 17:48
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"Who the hell would fly over a drop zone unless they were specifically told it was cold?"

The guy with his nose glued to the Go-To function on his GPS/iPad/iPhone (without the faintest idea where he is) of course................You sound surprised, the sky is full of them these days.

Rejoice in the present, things can only get worse!

Jezza
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 17:49
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I wouldnt dream off having a go at a student. Weve had them come through in the past but when you explain to them the problem they go away having learned something. Hey weve all been there. If a student reads this and realises its them im not going to bollock them.

But there are some experienced pilots out there who should know better. Especialy the one who thought it was ok to fly at 50ft up our runway while parachuting was going on. He had an interview without coffee with a nice chap from the CAA.

If you want to take anything away from this threat. Please if you intend to fly in the vacinity of a DZ or gliding site etc please give us a call. I dont mind people flying by and talking to us that way at least i know what your doing and your intensions so i dont have to worry if your going to turn and fly straight through the overhead. If your in the area were on 129.90 Errol DZ.

Stay safe

Floppy
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 17:56
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Wrong title

I think that unprofessional flying is the wrong title for this thread being as most of the people on this forum are not professional pilots.

I would have described the incident as unsafe flying, wreckless flying, irresponsible flying or stupid flying, the word professional should not come into it or should professional be used as an indication of high standards.

I have met professional pilots that I would not trust with a used pair of roller skates and Private pilots who I would trust with my life, getting paid to fly is no assurance of quality or high standards, the use of the word professional in this context is careless use of the English language.

Last edited by A and C; 2nd Sep 2012 at 17:59.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 19:01
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Like cambioso said, probably somebody who didn't have a clue where he/she was, but their GPS was on and following a GoTo somewhere so must have been ok.

I was accused by an R44 pilot once of illegal formation flying (once the CAA received the MOR) when i followed him to get the registration after he blatantly flew through our DZ with jumpers under canopies.

The sky is so full of incompetent cretins these days, it's every man for himself I'm afraid. On virtually every flight in GA land, I see examples of plain stupidity. Unfortunately, common sense and intelligence are not examined at any licence level.

Last edited by 'Chuffer' Dandridge; 2nd Sep 2012 at 19:03.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 19:01
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The controller pointed out I was coming down at 7,000fpm......
Why so slow?
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 19:02
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the use of the word professional in this context is careless use of the English language.
I always like to think I can deploy the English language reasonably well so while I'm not the OP on this thread I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on that one...

Professional is obviously primarily a noun, ie someone who is a 'professional' is someone who makes a living at a profession of some sort. In this context it is obviously incorrect to describe anyone who does not fit this description as a 'professional' and the word carries no positive or negative connotation; it is merely descriptive of someone's status.

However I would argue that it does also have a secondary use as an adjective or adverb that carries a positive connotation, ie one can say someone is "doing something in a professional manner" for example which usually means they are proficient to a high degree at something. To give another example my instructor might say to me "your radio manner sounds very professional"; that does not mean I am a professional radio operator it merely means I come across well on the radio.

Nothing is clear cut in language but I think most people would agree that the word "professional" carries a positive connotation when used in the above way...therefore logically unprofessional carries a bad one.

Apologies for this non-aviation post, whatever the adjective one uses to describe the crossing of an active DZ it is clearly poor airmanship.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 19:20
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I obtained my licence in June this year. Last week I was asked to go to Little Gransden in Cambs to collect a part for another ac. Being in the South East I was not too comfortable with having to jink around London at short notice - this was too close to the edge of my envelope so I asked my instructor to accompany me. He did the nav and I did the flying and everything was ok until we called the airfield blind and stated our intentions. My instructor was aware of the glider site at Gransden Lodge however to my surprise, having started my descent on the deadside of runway 28 I was faced with a glider coming in the opposite direction although he/she was higher. We both took appropriate action and I continued in the circuit and landed safely. It was only when checking in at Little Gransden did I see the joining instructions which showed I should have not ventured north of the field. My fault entirely I admit but I would not say it was unprofessional flying.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 19:21
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Nothing is clear cut in language but I think most people would agree that the word "professional" carries a positive connotation when used in the above way...therefore logically unprofessional carries a bad one.
In straightforward everyday English "professional" does indeed mean that you get paid for it, but "unprofessional" means you're a cowboy ... they're not, it seems, opposites, as you might have expected.

(And of course a (real) "cowboy" was no doubt professional.)
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 19:24
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floppyjock: what was the aircraft type?

NS
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 19:28
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It was only when checking in at Little Gransden did I see the joining instructions which showed I should have not ventured north of the field. My fault entirely I admit but I would not say it was unprofessional flying.
It is on their airfield info which I assume you carried/studied before you took off? I'm not being high and mighty here as I'm a low time pilot myself but surely you have been taught (and if not why not) to have a look at the airfield you are landing at? It's not you as a low time pilot I'm worried about, it's your instructor.
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 19:39
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Not sure on type. My recognition skills are not that good when it comes to light aircraft. (Neither is my use of the English language apparently) But it was yellow and what looked like black, single engine low wing. Why was it you ?

Floppy ;-)
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