152 crash at Sussex
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Ah music to the engineers ears, a big insurance job.......... Oh hang on, shock load on the engine, engine frame, firewall damage, new prop.........that will write off the average club 152.
But probably music to the ears of the owners with the new inspections that Cessna have mandated.
But probably music to the ears of the owners with the new inspections that Cessna have mandated.
Last edited by A and C; 14th Aug 2012 at 20:10.
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There, but for the grace of God, go many of us.
Whilst I can fully appreciate the cynicism - or even realism - my sympathy is with the pilot who either just got it wrong, or who suffered some sort of mechanical failure. Whoever you are, I hope you are back in the air soon.
Whilst I can fully appreciate the cynicism - or even realism - my sympathy is with the pilot who either just got it wrong, or who suffered some sort of mechanical failure. Whoever you are, I hope you are back in the air soon.
Local, ie not operated by the airfield, fire and rescue services have a standard 'worst case' response to callouts such as Aircraft Accident and Full Emergency, there is no 'in between' just because it's a two seater, in fact normally they won't even know what size the aircraft is until they arrive.
Avoid imitations
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When I flew in England it never ceased to amaze me how many pilots wreck airplanes by landing on the nose wheel.
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the local fire and rescue services will usually send far more units than are realistically required.
I have been a volunteer firefighter for 21 years. We always dispatch at least three trucks (though usually four) to anything with "crash" in the subject line. This policy was put into place because of a car accident call just before I joined, in which the rescue truck alone went to the accident. At the scene the car burst into flame, and the lone occupant burned to death, with the Fire Department unequipped to extinguish the fire. Ever since then....
In a more basic way of looking at things, trucks need the run in any case. Sorry if we make a scene, but it's your tax dollar at work, and someone called...
Glad there were no injuries, but then there should not for that type of crash. Shame about the plane, but A and C is probably right, the commercial use of that aircraft probably will not justify its repair....
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How many did you see then Chuck?
One does not have to ever have seen an airport to be able to read these reports.
My personal opinion is the main cause of wrecking simple training airplanes by landing them on the nose wheel can be traced to poor pilot training.
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Chuck, you said 'When I flew in England' not 'When I was reading the AAIB reports'.
If you single out English Pilots as being poorly trained, then don't expect us not to comment. However, I bow to your superior number of posts - you must spend a lot of your spare time on Pprune.
If you single out English Pilots as being poorly trained, then don't expect us not to comment. However, I bow to your superior number of posts - you must spend a lot of your spare time on Pprune.
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have no knowledge of this crash, but I know lots about Cessna nosewheels.
Though I do not suspect any particular nation's pilots, I do share a concern that too many pilots do not (or were not trained to) regard nosewheels as delicate. I would hope to see a C 152 nosewheel "light" by 20 MPH during takeoff, and not bearing any appreciable weight until slower than 30 MPH on landing. All kinds of things about flying a C 152 are better with the nosewheel not doing any work!
Though I do not suspect any particular nation's pilots, I do share a concern that too many pilots do not (or were not trained to) regard nosewheels as delicate. I would hope to see a C 152 nosewheel "light" by 20 MPH during takeoff, and not bearing any appreciable weight until slower than 30 MPH on landing. All kinds of things about flying a C 152 are better with the nosewheel not doing any work!
than North American pilots. Nose wheel first landings are almost always a result of excessively high approach speeds. For the C 152 anything more then 60 kts across the fence is too fast.
If you are a low houred PPL and don`t want this to ever happen to you then I would suggest you pay attention to two things
1) Never push forward on the yoke in the flare. If the aircraft balloons during the landing flare hold the landing attitude and wait for it to settle back towards the runway. If it feels like the bottom is going to drop out apply full power and go around.
2) If you ever touch nosewheel first immediately go around. These kinds of accidents almost never happen on the first time you have a nose wheel first touch down it is the second (or third) hit that does the damage.
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I have to agree with Chuck & Big pistons about the standard of training, the worst is in the places with the instructors dressed up with enough gold braid to put a South American general to shame. You know the places I am talking about 5 mile stablised approaches in a 152 !
The best instruction in the UK comes from the places were the instructor is dressed in jeans & tee shirt an he is not dreaming of flying a 747.
The best instruction in the UK comes from the places were the instructor is dressed in jeans & tee shirt an he is not dreaming of flying a 747.
Whilst Chuck's information sources may be dodgy, I think that his conclusions are probably correct. I have a suspicion that part of the problem is that so few instructors in the UK have ever flown tailwheel now. So they are used to landing relatively flat, and pass this bad habit onto their students, who then flatten it a bit more and once in a while one manages to land on the tailwheel.
North America probably is slightly better off, because not that many experienced pilots don't have tailwheel experience, which means that most instructors are more inclined to pass on an obsession with keeping the nose up on landing.
I'd guess from my experience that the majority of UK FIs don't have more than single figure tailwheel time.
G
North America probably is slightly better off, because not that many experienced pilots don't have tailwheel experience, which means that most instructors are more inclined to pass on an obsession with keeping the nose up on landing.
I'd guess from my experience that the majority of UK FIs don't have more than single figure tailwheel time.
G
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It was impressed upon me right from my first lesson that the nose wheel only touched the runway at the very start and at the very end of take offs and landings respectively. Failure to achieve the correct nose high attitude in either case led to my friendly monika for my instructor:
Ian "Get That
Stick Back!" Drake... :-)
Ian "Get That
Stick Back!" Drake... :-)
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Ghengis,
I would be surprised if as a percentage there are actually that many instructors in the States that have Taildragger experience and wonder if it is actually less of a problem there than here,
Certainly Taildragger experience teaches a good hold off, but there is no excuse for not teaching this on any aircraft.
I would be surprised if as a percentage there are actually that many instructors in the States that have Taildragger experience and wonder if it is actually less of a problem there than here,
Certainly Taildragger experience teaches a good hold off, but there is no excuse for not teaching this on any aircraft.
Last edited by foxmoth; 15th Aug 2012 at 08:10.
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I've always thought that everyone should learn to fly - and land - an Auster before moving on to girlie aircraft with nosewheels. Like I did.
But then again, I broke the nosewheel of a C172 at Lympne by trying to land in a x-wind that was well ouside the limits, because ATC told me to use the hard runway and not the grass, and I never even thought about x-wind limits.
Which proves that accidents happen, usually to the careless.
But then again, I broke the nosewheel of a C172 at Lympne by trying to land in a x-wind that was well ouside the limits, because ATC told me to use the hard runway and not the grass, and I never even thought about x-wind limits.
Which proves that accidents happen, usually to the careless.
Last edited by Capot; 15th Aug 2012 at 08:10.