Stalling - Help & Advice
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I still feel a course of 5 hrs in an aerobatic aircraft flying advanced out of the box techniques will add greatly to the understanding and confidence of a normal pilot.
. Not sure though (at least from a safety standpoint) to which extent the emphasis should indeed be on flying advanced out of the box maneuvers as opposed to learning how to smoothly recover a.s.a.p. from (developed, not incipient 
) upsets and unusual attitudes without panicking and without overstressing even a non-aerobatic aircraft (cf. the PC 12 accident).
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yes yes its all great what would develope a PPL into a complete pilot.
Unfortunately after flying SEPs for a 1000 hours i wasn't one of them. Althought pretty tidy at PFL's and steep turns etc.
There is only so much you can teach the buggers properly in 45 hours.
And as its quite a common issue they can't even trim properly and hold an attitude I reckon we should crack that first.
Unfortunately after flying SEPs for a 1000 hours i wasn't one of them. Althought pretty tidy at PFL's and steep turns etc.
There is only so much you can teach the buggers properly in 45 hours.
And as its quite a common issue they can't even trim properly and hold an attitude I reckon we should crack that first.
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And as its quite a common issue they can't even trim properly and hold an attitude I reckon we should crack that first.
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I could not agree more, and in words Pace will understand. You have to learn to steer a proper line before you can understand how to deal with understeer, oversteer, slides and braking points.
So when they are driving around following their proper lines on their own fingers crossed they do not get into any of the above!
MJ problem is you let the buggers loose on their own
Pace
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yep we do because there is only so far you can take them with out letting them loose.
In a perfect world we would get them back after 50 hours and do another 10 when they actually had some experence to understand the finer points you are trying to get across,but it doesn't work like that.
If you have a look at the way gliding training is done and progress through the tickets both pilot wise and instructor wise its a hellva lot more sensible.
In a perfect world we would get them back after 50 hours and do another 10 when they actually had some experence to understand the finer points you are trying to get across,but it doesn't work like that.
If you have a look at the way gliding training is done and progress through the tickets both pilot wise and instructor wise its a hellva lot more sensible.
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(...)You have to learn to steer a proper line before you can understand how to deal with understeer, oversteer, slides and braking points.
So when they are driving around following their proper lines on their own fingers crossed they do not get into any of the above!
it seems to me that the majority quite well succeed in not getting into any of the above. AFAIK lack of car handling skills is at best a marginal factor WRT road accidents compared to, e.g., lack of judgement and/or awareness.
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ArmChairFlyer
What has happened to the RayBan sporting,leather jacketed pilots of old?:
This lot will all be flying around in Pink aeroplanes soon with dummies stuck in their mouths ??
Only joking
Pace
What has happened to the RayBan sporting,leather jacketed pilots of old?
:This lot will all be flying around in Pink aeroplanes soon with dummies stuck in their mouths ??
Only joking
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 9th Aug 2012 at 12:27.
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The thing is some just don't get the whole idea behind operating any bit of machinery be it car,plane or boat or even a generator.
Yes they can demonstrate sufficent skills to be able to be allowed loose with said items. But in reallity it doesn't matter how much training you give them they will never be at one with said equipment. Every control input there will require a thought to be be processed reflected on if thats the right thing to do then actioned.
Yes they can demonstrate sufficent skills to be able to be allowed loose with said items. But in reallity it doesn't matter how much training you give them they will never be at one with said equipment. Every control input there will require a thought to be be processed reflected on if thats the right thing to do then actioned.
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at one with said equipment
I have observed over my decades of operating all manner of machine, that there are four major phases of the operation of a machine:
Machine is not operating/being operated = very safe
Machine operating normally, with a wide margin of safety all the way around = safe for trained person to operate.
Machine operating in the range beginning at "abnormal" but not exceeding any design limitations (could be headed that way though) = the "trained" person might be outside their comfort zone, and headed for trouble, but the person who is "at one" with the machine might still be in a safe operating range, because their training and "oneness" is compensating for the otherwise abnormal conditions.
Machine operating beyond limitations, or in imminent peril = only former race drivers have a hope of recovery.
Every pilot qualified on a class of aircraft should be very comfortable in any part of the second phase, and able to just touch into the third phase with self assuredness. If, however, they recognize that being well into the third phase causes real fear, or reduced performance, they must either self limit to always stay out of those types of operations, or seek lots more training. A quick bit of refresher training is not going to do it.
a 45 hour PPL course does not come near providing enough opportunity to expose a student to everything they should know to be safe. Those students who rush to their first solo, and try to do everything in the minimums, are just cheating themselves, and increasing the risk to their passengers. Stalls are just one of the many types of operations which should be trained well, and practiced regularly. It's not so much the need for the pilot to be able to stall and recover well, but much more the ability of the pilot to be able to operate in phase three with enough confidence that they can get safely back out, without letting things get worse, or freezing with fear. They need to be at one with the equipment....
