You have an electrical fire in the cockpit...
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I completely disagree with this statement. All the typical later model aircraft you will find at flight schools and clubs have a pretty comprehensive set of procedures for the likely emergencies and they all specifically cover the cabin fire emergency.
Interestingly it suggests if the fire doesn't go out or you need electrical power to continue the flight, switch the master switch back on and then start pulling CB's until it goes out. For an engine fire it suggests using a higher glide speed to find an airspeed which provides an incombustible mixture, then if it doesn't go out and you have a parachute with sufficient height remaining, it suggests you jettison the canopy and leave the aircraft!
Last edited by The500man; 19th Jul 2012 at 15:40.
BPF, that is true but not everybody has a later model. My S2A POH includes emergency checklists for in flight engine restarts and freezing of the pitot-static head, and that's it. The S2C handling notes I have do include engine/ electrical fire checklists.
Interestingly it suggests if the fire doesn't go out or you need electrical power to continue the flight, switch the master switch back on and then start pulling CB's until it goes out. For an engine fire it suggests using a higher glide speed to find an airspeed which provides an incombustible mixture, then if it doesn't go out and you have a parachute with sufficient height remaining, it suggests you jettison the canopy and leave the aircraft!
Interestingly it suggests if the fire doesn't go out or you need electrical power to continue the flight, switch the master switch back on and then start pulling CB's until it goes out. For an engine fire it suggests using a higher glide speed to find an airspeed which provides an incombustible mixture, then if it doesn't go out and you have a parachute with sufficient height remaining, it suggests you jettison the canopy and leave the aircraft!
Since the Pitts is a Day VFR machine I can't think of any situation where electrical power is essential for continued safe flight. It would seem to me that just turning off the power and landing NORDO at the nearest practicable airport would seem the best course of action. That is of course assuming that the smoke/fire immediately stopped. In any airplane an uncontrolled cabin fire is a desperate emergency and an immediate landing at the nearest survivable surface carried out as quickly as possible is IMO the best course of action.
As for engine fires the good news is every incident/accident report I have ever seen where the engine was immediately shut down and secured at the first positive sign of fire resulted in the fire spontaneously going out. The disasters occurred when an engine which was on fire was for what ever reason, left running.
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 20th Jul 2012 at 04:02.
I don't think that the Piper or Cessna test pilots are the only input to the POH, I would guess that the company lawyers have quite a bit to say on the subject and most of what lawyers say is about protection for the client, not for the protection of the pilot.
A quick assessment of the situation is far better that rushing blindly into a situation that you could have prevented by a small amount of thought. I don't advocate keeping the electrics running for more that about 60 seconds, 30 seconds of thinking and trouble shooting and 30 seconds for the mayday call & 7700 on the transponder. At no time did I say reset any circuit breakers, I said TRIPP the CB's of suspect system, after all it could be a problem with the CB it's self.
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A quick assessment of the situation is far better that rushing blindly into a situation that you could have prevented by a small amount of thought. I don't advocate keeping the electrics running for more that about 60 seconds, 30 seconds of thinking and trouble shooting and 30 seconds for the mayday call & 7700 on the transponder. At no time did I say reset any circuit breakers, I said TRIPP the CB's of suspect system, after all it could be a problem with the CB it's self.
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Master ............. Off
Vents, cabin air...Off
Fire Extinguisher..Activate.
The non memory items call to ventilate the cabin after assuring the fire is out and land ASAP. Personally I don't see a lawyers hand in what to me represent a pretty practical set of actions.
I think leaving the master on for a whole minute when suspecting a cabin fire is lunacy. 60 seconds is plenty of time for a dead short to heat up to many hundreds of degrees with the heat feeding a fire which can quickly get out of hand. If you flying day VFR in a light GA aircraft which I think applies to the majority of people reading this form, then again, I can't think of any circumstance where electrical power to the cabin is essential for continued safe flight.
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 20th Jul 2012 at 04:05.
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BPF, I'm as much a stickler for the POH as the next guy, in fact the one of the a/c I mostly fly sits right next to me now.
However, nowhere in a POH have I yet found the phrase:
Brain - switch off
I would switch the master off PDQ also, but especially when flying in remote areas I'd really try to get a Mayday and an 'ident' out first. Obviously, if the flames are already licking at my feet I might not.....
Re the handheld - fuggetaboutit for most situations. Unless you have an external antenna and have it rigged and ready, these things just don't have the range required.
From AOPA Flight Training, referenced somewhere else on this thread:
Makes sense to me.
However, nowhere in a POH have I yet found the phrase:
Brain - switch off
I would switch the master off PDQ also, but especially when flying in remote areas I'd really try to get a Mayday and an 'ident' out first. Obviously, if the flames are already licking at my feet I might not.....
Re the handheld - fuggetaboutit for most situations. Unless you have an external antenna and have it rigged and ready, these things just don't have the range required.
From AOPA Flight Training, referenced somewhere else on this thread:
If we have time to communicate before powering down the electrical system, we have three options. Call ATC, broadcast in the blind on the emergency frequency of 121.5 MHz, or tune the 7700 emergency code into the transponder and IDENT. Taking a few seconds to do any of these things before we shut down the electrical system might alert someone to the problem and bring fire/rescue services to the scene as we head for an airport. Finally, if it has a manual switch, we can activate the emergency locator transmitter. The beauty of the ELT is that it has its own power supply and will bring help to the scene of a forced landing should that become necessary.
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Big Pistons
It is very hard what qualifies an electrical fire in the early stages, the first unusual smell should get the pilot looking for a problem and mentaly getting into electrical power down mode......... But not an unconsidered electrical shutdown.
A few years ago I had the low volts light come on and the alternator load fall to zero along with a smell of burnt rubber, I was thinking about shutting down the electrical system but with no other indications and all the other electrical equipment functioning I just off loaded all unnecessary electrical equipment and landed normaly....... The reason for the trouble was a broken alternator belt that had come to rest on the cylinders.
It would become very quickly apparent if things were progressing from a minor problem into one that could not be contained unless drastic action was taken, I take the view that you need to be sure that he action you are taking is the correct one for the situation and not a vast over reaction that will put the aircraft in more danger than is necessary.
Of course if you are starting to get acrid smoke, erratic indications etc there is no doubt that the electrical master switch has to go off, what I don't want to see is very low time pilots shutting own electrical systems in blind panic and then making a panic approach with no flaps or stall warning system and getting it all very wrong.............and then the accident investigators find that the inital problem was a system had shorted, there was a slight burning smell, the system CB had tripped to protect the system as it should have and there was no danger of the problem escalating.
A few years ago I had the low volts light come on and the alternator load fall to zero along with a smell of burnt rubber, I was thinking about shutting down the electrical system but with no other indications and all the other electrical equipment functioning I just off loaded all unnecessary electrical equipment and landed normaly....... The reason for the trouble was a broken alternator belt that had come to rest on the cylinders.
It would become very quickly apparent if things were progressing from a minor problem into one that could not be contained unless drastic action was taken, I take the view that you need to be sure that he action you are taking is the correct one for the situation and not a vast over reaction that will put the aircraft in more danger than is necessary.
Of course if you are starting to get acrid smoke, erratic indications etc there is no doubt that the electrical master switch has to go off, what I don't want to see is very low time pilots shutting own electrical systems in blind panic and then making a panic approach with no flaps or stall warning system and getting it all very wrong.............and then the accident investigators find that the inital problem was a system had shorted, there was a slight burning smell, the system CB had tripped to protect the system as it should have and there was no danger of the problem escalating.
It is very hard what qualifies an electrical fire in the early stages, the first unusual smell should get the pilot looking for a problem and mentaly getting into electrical power down mode......... But not an unconsidered electrical shutdown.
A few years ago I had the low volts light come on and the alternator load fall to zero along with a smell of burnt rubber, I was thinking about shutting down the electrical system but with no other indications and all the other electrical equipment functioning I just off loaded all unnecessary electrical equipment and landed normaly....... The reason for the trouble was a broken alternator belt that had come to rest on the cylinders.
It would become very quickly apparent if things were progressing from a minor problem into one that could not be contained unless drastic action was taken, I take the view that you need to be sure that he action you are taking is the correct one for the situation and not a vast over reaction that will put the aircraft in more danger than is necessary.
Of course if you are starting to get acrid smoke, erratic indications etc there is no doubt that the electrical master switch has to go off, what I don't want to see is very low time pilots shutting own electrical systems in blind panic and then making a panic approach with no flaps or stall warning system and getting it all very wrong.............and then the accident investigators find that the inital problem was a system had shorted, there was a slight burning smell, the system CB had tripped to protect the system as it should have and there was no danger of the problem escalating.
A few years ago I had the low volts light come on and the alternator load fall to zero along with a smell of burnt rubber, I was thinking about shutting down the electrical system but with no other indications and all the other electrical equipment functioning I just off loaded all unnecessary electrical equipment and landed normaly....... The reason for the trouble was a broken alternator belt that had come to rest on the cylinders.
It would become very quickly apparent if things were progressing from a minor problem into one that could not be contained unless drastic action was taken, I take the view that you need to be sure that he action you are taking is the correct one for the situation and not a vast over reaction that will put the aircraft in more danger than is necessary.
Of course if you are starting to get acrid smoke, erratic indications etc there is no doubt that the electrical master switch has to go off, what I don't want to see is very low time pilots shutting own electrical systems in blind panic and then making a panic approach with no flaps or stall warning system and getting it all very wrong.............and then the accident investigators find that the inital problem was a system had shorted, there was a slight burning smell, the system CB had tripped to protect the system as it should have and there was no danger of the problem escalating.
The bottom line is simple. Every emergency should start with fly the aircraft , deal with the emergency, then talk on the radio. Again I am struggling to think of any light aircraft emergency where talking on the radio is going to be the first thing you do.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Finally if landing with no flaps would cause British PPL's to "panic" then the state of your flight training is worst then I thought. Oh and single engine Cessna's do not require power for the stall warning horn to operate, something that is clearly discussed in the POH, for those who bother to read it. (Note, electrical power is however required for Piper stall warning systems).
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 20th Jul 2012 at 14:45.
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The thing is that no matter how you toss these arguments, the smart thing is to carry a handheld GPS and a handheld radio.
If you don't carry these two, one day you are going to get seriously bitten on the bum, and that applies to all planes that have a single point of failure for the electrics, and that includes most twins also.
If you don't carry these two, one day you are going to get seriously bitten on the bum, and that applies to all planes that have a single point of failure for the electrics, and that includes most twins also.
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Oh and single engine Cessna's do not require power for the stall warning horn to operate, something that is clearly discussed in the POH, for those who bother to read it
Oh yes, some do. 172RG for example (not that that was the most important piece of kit, though....).
To me using your brain in the case of an inflight emergency is knowing the actions to take that will the most quickly and effectively stop/reduce your problem. Then assessing the problem and taking appropriate steps to deal with the situation.
So in the context of an electrical fire instead of as you suggest making a radio transmission with all the electrical services still energized and potentially about to make the situation worse, I think the best way would be to follow the POH electrical fire emergency checklist starting with immediately turning off the master to hopefully stop the ignition source.
If after completing the memory items of emergency checklist a decision is made that a radio call should be made then you should follow the POH emergency checklist to restore essential power. This will involve turning off all switches, pulling all CB's except the ones you need for one radio, looking for obvious indicators of where the problem is, like hot /melted switches/components, then turning on the master switch and making your call. These actions will minimize the chance of the smoke/fire reoccurring.
From a practical perspective the likely result of quickly removing power will be to stop the effected circuit from moving from the smoking stage to the on fire stage. Existing smoke/burning odor will likely start dissipating and so you can save re-energizing the electrical system until you get to the edge of the airspace of the nearest suitable airport and then turn on the master and make a Mayday call indicating your intentions and the fact that you are turning off all electrics at the conclusion of the radio call.
That would be the best case scenario. The worst case would be flames suddenly spurting out of the instrument panel. Again leaving power on is only going to make things worse and to me the idea that the first thing you should do in this situation is talk on the radio, just doesn't fit into BPF's brain.
IMO knowing and following the POH procedures combined with a deliberate assessment of the problem followed by actions appropriate to the situation is the best way to handle this emergency.
Finally re your note about the stall warning horn on the Retractable gear, constant speed prop equiped C172RG. Your are correct unlike the simple fixed gear fixed pitch prop C 172's which are ubiquitous at flying schools and clubs, this model does indeed have an electrically operated vane type stall warning horn. The Cessna Citation jets also all have electrically operated stall warning systems and my guess is that the average reader of this forum is about as likely to fly one of those as a C172RG.
However I will take your point that I was incorrect when I implied all C172's do not require electrical power for the stall warning system. I was thinking of the simple fixed gear series which have a reed type stall horn which activated by airflow though a fixed orifice in the wing leading edge. Systems can vary even among similar models which I think reinforces my point about reading the POH to understand how the aircraft you fly, works.
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 20th Jul 2012 at 22:56.
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Big pistons
I think you have taken a very literal view to this thread, most of the people posting on this thread have taken the view to reply along the line of the developing situation and have given answers that reflect the action that they would take from the first hint of an unusual smell and the actions that they would take as the situation developed.
You have taken the view that the situation has already reached the large quantitys of smoke and may be flames and for this switching off the master switch is the first thing to do. The fact is that electrical problems don't usually go from nothing to full blown fire without some other form of indication.
I don't think that 30 seconds of investigation of an unusual smell followed by a distress call & 7700 transponder selection is a reckless course of action, followed by a structued electrical power down. If the situation is rapidly getting worse then of course the electrical master switch must go off at once. A low timer reading your posts might well get the impression that at the first hint of an unusual smell the electrical system should be switched off and creating an emergency that never existed. After all that smell could be the smoke from the power station that he had just flown over.
As to the state of pilot training in the UK I would rate it no better or worse than in North America, Australia, NZ & Northern Europe, all these country's have almost identical accident rates with the UK having weather that is less predictable than most.
What I am sure of is that a very low time PPL who has done a panic electrical shut down and now has the wife & kids in a state of very high state anxiety is not going to be very well placed to land the aircraft ( possibly flap less and with a manual gear extension ) what ever country he is flying in.
You have taken the view that the situation has already reached the large quantitys of smoke and may be flames and for this switching off the master switch is the first thing to do. The fact is that electrical problems don't usually go from nothing to full blown fire without some other form of indication.
I don't think that 30 seconds of investigation of an unusual smell followed by a distress call & 7700 transponder selection is a reckless course of action, followed by a structued electrical power down. If the situation is rapidly getting worse then of course the electrical master switch must go off at once. A low timer reading your posts might well get the impression that at the first hint of an unusual smell the electrical system should be switched off and creating an emergency that never existed. After all that smell could be the smoke from the power station that he had just flown over.
As to the state of pilot training in the UK I would rate it no better or worse than in North America, Australia, NZ & Northern Europe, all these country's have almost identical accident rates with the UK having weather that is less predictable than most.
What I am sure of is that a very low time PPL who has done a panic electrical shut down and now has the wife & kids in a state of very high state anxiety is not going to be very well placed to land the aircraft ( possibly flap less and with a manual gear extension ) what ever country he is flying in.
Last edited by A and C; 21st Jul 2012 at 09:08.
A and C
If the situation is serious enough that you feel the need to make a Mayday call then I would suggest the situation is serious enough to follow the POH emergency checklist which starts with Master Switch Off. Then as I said in my last post after an assessment of the situation you may elect to follow the POH procedure for restoring power which are designed to minimize the fire risk to make a radio call.
Just to be clear I consider a fire inside the cabin one of the worst things that can happen to a GA pilot. The cabin of your average light airplane is full of plastic and foam which will give of noxious fumes when heated, the small size makes it impossible to move away from hot areas and renders use of the fire extinguisher problematical.
So for me if I smell the distinctive harsh odor of overheated wires which will generally be the first indication of the potential of a progression to a full blown electrical fire is going to be the cue to take immediate action to take away the ignition source.
Personally I have trouble understanding the idea is that the first thing you do when you think you are in trouble is send out a mayday. D & D are not going to be able to do anything to immediately make the situation better and the first thing they are going to do is to start asking questions to find out what is going on, which is going to encourage a conversation that will eat up time and in the worst case allow the odor to smoke to fire progression to take place, something that can happen quite quickly. Once the flames have started you are in a very very bad place........
Finally electrical power is not required for safe flight for the average GA light aircraft flight. Frankly any pilot that can't handle the possibility of loosing electrical power, which of course could happen for many reasons, is IMO not ready to be flying on his/her own, especially with passengers. They need more training.
So to summarize BPF's bottom line. If I am flying around and I smell burning insulation or other smells suggestive of electrical mayhem, I will immediately follow the POH checks starting with the turning the master switch off. I will then asses the situation and if I feel that no immediate danger of fire exists consider using the checklist procedure to restore power for essential services only which will probably be confined to only one Comm and I will land at the nearest suitable aerodrome. Since an electrical fire is started by electrical power I simply will not take the risk of leaving the aircraft electrically powered for any length of time if I suspect the possibility of a serious electrical malfunction.
If the situation is serious enough that you feel the need to make a Mayday call then I would suggest the situation is serious enough to follow the POH emergency checklist which starts with Master Switch Off. Then as I said in my last post after an assessment of the situation you may elect to follow the POH procedure for restoring power which are designed to minimize the fire risk to make a radio call.
Just to be clear I consider a fire inside the cabin one of the worst things that can happen to a GA pilot. The cabin of your average light airplane is full of plastic and foam which will give of noxious fumes when heated, the small size makes it impossible to move away from hot areas and renders use of the fire extinguisher problematical.
So for me if I smell the distinctive harsh odor of overheated wires which will generally be the first indication of the potential of a progression to a full blown electrical fire is going to be the cue to take immediate action to take away the ignition source.
Personally I have trouble understanding the idea is that the first thing you do when you think you are in trouble is send out a mayday. D & D are not going to be able to do anything to immediately make the situation better and the first thing they are going to do is to start asking questions to find out what is going on, which is going to encourage a conversation that will eat up time and in the worst case allow the odor to smoke to fire progression to take place, something that can happen quite quickly. Once the flames have started you are in a very very bad place........
Finally electrical power is not required for safe flight for the average GA light aircraft flight. Frankly any pilot that can't handle the possibility of loosing electrical power, which of course could happen for many reasons, is IMO not ready to be flying on his/her own, especially with passengers. They need more training.
So to summarize BPF's bottom line. If I am flying around and I smell burning insulation or other smells suggestive of electrical mayhem, I will immediately follow the POH checks starting with the turning the master switch off. I will then asses the situation and if I feel that no immediate danger of fire exists consider using the checklist procedure to restore power for essential services only which will probably be confined to only one Comm and I will land at the nearest suitable aerodrome. Since an electrical fire is started by electrical power I simply will not take the risk of leaving the aircraft electrically powered for any length of time if I suspect the possibility of a serious electrical malfunction.
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 22nd Jul 2012 at 02:08.
Second Big Pistons here. Most light aircraft don't need any electrical services to fly......they do need a functioning pilot not incapacitated by smoke. Just a thought, but how many of us have actually practised this sort of shutdown? Either in training or later?
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As to the state of pilot training in the UK I would rate it no better or worse than in North America, Australia, NZ & Northern Europe, all these country's have almost identical accident rates with the UK having weather that is less predictable than most.
If someone is badly trained, but still has a brain (and you definitely do have to have a brain to pass the PPL exams nowadays) they will avoid doing more complicated trips. Most people are smart enough to know their limits. Confidence plays a very big part in flying and if you don't have it, you don't do the flight (usually).
My experience of FAA training (both PPL and CPL, as well as the IR) is that it is a lot more rigorous than over here, with emphasis on aircraft control, unusual attitudes, soft field / short field takeoff techniques in the PPL, etc. A US trained PPL can fly all over the USA (facilitated admittedly by their uniform airspace etc structure). A UK trained PPL knows how to fly Goodwood to Bembridge; Le Touquet is a major adventure which needs emotional support from pilot forums
The Americans also don't fly massive circuits. Some of the circuits at the UK coastal airfields are almost into French airspace, and the last one I saw had an instructor aboard
Last edited by peterh337; 22nd Jul 2012 at 06:46.
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The system is so variable that I don't think that you can generalize about pilot standards across the country's that I quoted, as an instructor I get to see a lot of pilots some have come directly from flying schools in the USA , some have not been able to land a PA 28 on the 700m runway at Booker, others have been practically faultless and much the same picture is evident from UK trained pilots who fly out of large airfields.
The long distance flying thing is due to culture not ability with most clubs in the UK taking a " there be draggons" attitude to crossing the channel, add paperwork required and you have all the conditions for those who want to be seen as important turning crossing 25 mies of water into a black art.
Poor aircraft control in the circuit is due to a combination of noise abatement procedures and young pilots who think at they are airline pilots and want to be stabilized at 1000 ft and three miles, fortunately I teach at a place that has the option of a 600 ft oval circuit so we don't have those problems. Once a student has got the basics of landing the aircraft i try to get at a minimun one visit to a 500m runway for the short field work. As I said recently on another forum when needs dictated I have flown a 737 around a circuit that would have fitted inside the circuit at Booker so I have a lot of sympathy with your situation at your base airfield.
Technical matters are along with aerodynamics probably the worst taught subjects, I try to get at leaset one visit to the maintenance base during a PPL' s training as looking at an aircraft that is in pieces helps a lot with the understanding the construction and the systems.
We insist that a coppy of the POH is in the aircraft and have them avalable on PDF for the students to download.
To return to the electrical fire subject I think that the diference of opinion we between Big Pistons and myself is about 30 seconds before the master switch is turned off, he advocates a structured power up, ( with the possibility of re-starting the fire ) I advocate a structured power down with no re-powering of the electrical system. It is likely that in both cases after the first indication of posable electrical fire the system will be powered for about 60 seconds, in the case of Big Pistons that would be in two 30 second bursts.
This assumes that in both cases it takes the pilot about 15 seconds to react to the inital indication.
The other thing that is a factor in the UK is that unlike anywhere else that I can think of the ATC D&D cell can command instant help on the ground that will be awaiting you on arrival, and the proximity of airfields in the UK. I might take a slightly different attitude if I was in Alaska or out in the GAFA were any form of help was a long way away and there was practically no other air traffic.
The long distance flying thing is due to culture not ability with most clubs in the UK taking a " there be draggons" attitude to crossing the channel, add paperwork required and you have all the conditions for those who want to be seen as important turning crossing 25 mies of water into a black art.
Poor aircraft control in the circuit is due to a combination of noise abatement procedures and young pilots who think at they are airline pilots and want to be stabilized at 1000 ft and three miles, fortunately I teach at a place that has the option of a 600 ft oval circuit so we don't have those problems. Once a student has got the basics of landing the aircraft i try to get at a minimun one visit to a 500m runway for the short field work. As I said recently on another forum when needs dictated I have flown a 737 around a circuit that would have fitted inside the circuit at Booker so I have a lot of sympathy with your situation at your base airfield.
Technical matters are along with aerodynamics probably the worst taught subjects, I try to get at leaset one visit to the maintenance base during a PPL' s training as looking at an aircraft that is in pieces helps a lot with the understanding the construction and the systems.
We insist that a coppy of the POH is in the aircraft and have them avalable on PDF for the students to download.
To return to the electrical fire subject I think that the diference of opinion we between Big Pistons and myself is about 30 seconds before the master switch is turned off, he advocates a structured power up, ( with the possibility of re-starting the fire ) I advocate a structured power down with no re-powering of the electrical system. It is likely that in both cases after the first indication of posable electrical fire the system will be powered for about 60 seconds, in the case of Big Pistons that would be in two 30 second bursts.
This assumes that in both cases it takes the pilot about 15 seconds to react to the inital indication.
The other thing that is a factor in the UK is that unlike anywhere else that I can think of the ATC D&D cell can command instant help on the ground that will be awaiting you on arrival, and the proximity of airfields in the UK. I might take a slightly different attitude if I was in Alaska or out in the GAFA were any form of help was a long way away and there was practically no other air traffic.
Last edited by A and C; 22nd Jul 2012 at 10:21.
I'm in violent agreement with most of my learned colleagues above.
(1) Master switch off
(2) Fly the aeroplane
(3) Divert if nothing seems to be still burning, land immediately if something does still seem to be
(4) Fuel off ONLY if there seems any risk of fire near the fuel. But if that risk exists, just do it immediately, then fly the forced landing.
(5) IF TIME AND CAPACITY PERMIT, turn off surplus "stuff", then turn the master switch on long enough for whatever combination of RT / gear / flaps seem necessary and appropriate,then off again. If time and capacity don't permit, or there's new smoke as soon as the power comes back, just fly the aeroplane with the master off, and don't worry about the rest of it.
(6) Flapless landings in Cessnas are pretty much non-events - add about 5kn to the approach speed, and expect to use maybe 25% more runway. I've had a C150 electrical failure on a night cross country; the non-radio flapless night approach and landing that resulted, was stressful, but perfectly safe and nothing to write home about.
G
(1) Master switch off
(2) Fly the aeroplane
(3) Divert if nothing seems to be still burning, land immediately if something does still seem to be
(4) Fuel off ONLY if there seems any risk of fire near the fuel. But if that risk exists, just do it immediately, then fly the forced landing.
(5) IF TIME AND CAPACITY PERMIT, turn off surplus "stuff", then turn the master switch on long enough for whatever combination of RT / gear / flaps seem necessary and appropriate,then off again. If time and capacity don't permit, or there's new smoke as soon as the power comes back, just fly the aeroplane with the master off, and don't worry about the rest of it.
(6) Flapless landings in Cessnas are pretty much non-events - add about 5kn to the approach speed, and expect to use maybe 25% more runway. I've had a C150 electrical failure on a night cross country; the non-radio flapless night approach and landing that resulted, was stressful, but perfectly safe and nothing to write home about.
G
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Looking up stuff regarding alternators and came across this thread.
I say I have to strongly agree with Big Pistons. You do NOT want to deal with a cabin fire. I sure hope I never have to experience it.
Even if you're just getting a bit of smoke coming out from under the panel you have no idea what the status is. There could be flames which are out of view from you and the fire could be already self-sustaining. The fire might not be self-sustaining at the point you first see the smoke and turning off the electric power could be the difference between the fire going out and the fire continuing to burn - taking 1 second longer could be that difference. Even when you have hindsight you still won't know exactly how it would have gone if you reacted differently. Do you really want to bet your life on being able to make that one transmission? - the one thing that does absolutely nothing to put the fire out and could make the fire worse. If you had the benefit of knowing exactly how the fire would progress and what the consequences would be for every action you take then you'd be able to determine if you do or don't have time to make a radio call instead of dealing with the fire. You don't have that benefit so why are you going to bet your life on it? I don't think people realize how bad a cabin/electrical fire is.
Like was mentioned previously, switching the ELT to on is an excellent idea. When ATC loses you on the radar and then sees your ELT come on I think they will understand that you might have an emergency - I mean, you just switched on your EMERGENCY Locator Transmitter. You should do that AFTER you have dealt with the fire.
I say I have to strongly agree with Big Pistons. You do NOT want to deal with a cabin fire. I sure hope I never have to experience it.
Even if you're just getting a bit of smoke coming out from under the panel you have no idea what the status is. There could be flames which are out of view from you and the fire could be already self-sustaining. The fire might not be self-sustaining at the point you first see the smoke and turning off the electric power could be the difference between the fire going out and the fire continuing to burn - taking 1 second longer could be that difference. Even when you have hindsight you still won't know exactly how it would have gone if you reacted differently. Do you really want to bet your life on being able to make that one transmission? - the one thing that does absolutely nothing to put the fire out and could make the fire worse. If you had the benefit of knowing exactly how the fire would progress and what the consequences would be for every action you take then you'd be able to determine if you do or don't have time to make a radio call instead of dealing with the fire. You don't have that benefit so why are you going to bet your life on it? I don't think people realize how bad a cabin/electrical fire is.
Like was mentioned previously, switching the ELT to on is an excellent idea. When ATC loses you on the radar and then sees your ELT come on I think they will understand that you might have an emergency - I mean, you just switched on your EMERGENCY Locator Transmitter. You should do that AFTER you have dealt with the fire.