Interesting crash footage from glider.
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Very difficult from the narrow perspective of the film to judge what happened and how our hero came to be in such a tight spot. The film probably starts at no more than 500 ft above the point of arrival, and it's quite possible that the writing was on the wall 5 minutes before the groundloop, as that's when the last likely looking fields might have been rejected in favour of a marginal glide that quickly turned to worms. Personally, I was interested in the reasonably large field disappearing to the port side of the nose some 15-20 seconds in to the video, but then you can't see likely negative factors like slope, wires etc, so again, difficult to judge. Let he who is without sin and all that, but a great vid to use as a reminder as to what happens when height and ideas evaporate simutlaneously. The irony is that he damn near got away with it. But for the fire hydrant or whatever it was, there might not have been a scratch on the glider at all....
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looking thro it it looks as though the field has a slope down left to right - but then the road he landed on seemed the same - I think an upslope, down wind landing on the field may have had better results - Its great to sit here and look at it afterwards - the reality is a bit harder.
gk
gk
Some really good questions to and answers from the pilot on the discussion attached to the video. Normally I don't look at the comments on YouTube as they are pretty puerile but this seems to be an exception.
To sum it up, from what I understand he was ridge soaring and went below the recommended lowest altitude before attempting a return to the field. On the way back he was in sinking air up to 600fpm but would have still made it back if he could have made it through the notch in the ridge we see ahead of him on the video. He decided it wasn't going to work and put it down on the road instead but clipped a mailbox on the rollout.
Top marks to him for having the balls to post the clip and being totally honest about the chain of events that led to the accident. At least he didn't panic and had made a plan if things went badly wrong. Could so easily have been another stall/spin fatality. He's an experienced power pilot but fairly new to gliding - he says he's going to edit the rest of the vid. and add comments, should be extremely educational.
To sum it up, from what I understand he was ridge soaring and went below the recommended lowest altitude before attempting a return to the field. On the way back he was in sinking air up to 600fpm but would have still made it back if he could have made it through the notch in the ridge we see ahead of him on the video. He decided it wasn't going to work and put it down on the road instead but clipped a mailbox on the rollout.
Top marks to him for having the balls to post the clip and being totally honest about the chain of events that led to the accident. At least he didn't panic and had made a plan if things went badly wrong. Could so easily have been another stall/spin fatality. He's an experienced power pilot but fairly new to gliding - he says he's going to edit the rest of the vid. and add comments, should be extremely educational.
Last edited by FullWings; 15th Jul 2012 at 06:46.
Judging by other videos by the same pilot, it's Lake Elsinore in southern California. If you scroll through the comments, you see some other observations by the OP.
Here's my favourite:
I got caught in a similar situation once, but luckily in a high performance glider and was able to reach a notch in the ridge and fly through. It certainly raises the adrenaline level.
Full marks for posting the video
Here's my favourite:
Many interesting, funny and spooky stories came from this outlanding. One involved the very first vehicle to come down that deserted road. It was the garbage truck. The guy drove up, stared at my plane sitting atop the pile of garbage, looked me in the eyes, shrugged his sholders and drove off without another word.
Full marks for posting the video
Last edited by India Four Two; 15th Jul 2012 at 07:06.
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What a brilliant clip and full credit to him for holding it together in difficult circumstances.
He went hard right rather than taking the gap to the left which lead to lower ground!
Would he have made it I think so but I was not there. Instead he chose to hard bank along the hill and onto the road.
Just shows how roads and long winged gliders do not mix with telegraph poles and all manner of obstructions to catch a wing.
But well done to him as not a nice position to be in.
Pace
He went hard right rather than taking the gap to the left which lead to lower ground!
Would he have made it I think so but I was not there. Instead he chose to hard bank along the hill and onto the road.
Just shows how roads and long winged gliders do not mix with telegraph poles and all manner of obstructions to catch a wing.
But well done to him as not a nice position to be in.
Pace
Definitely Lake Elsinore:
"The Mailbox" 33°34'58.68"N 117°18'45.08"W
"The Mailbox" 33°34'58.68"N 117°18'45.08"W
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Would he have made it I think so but I was not there.
But it's incredibly hard to tell from the video, and if he would have made it, the margin would be very, very slim.
Me personally I would have taken the field left of the road, instead of the road itself. But I wasn't there and all I have to go by is the video.
I think because of the blue skies and sunshine in the video, it all looks clear cut. Remember, he was in sinking air, probably with significant variations in the amount plus there was a bit of wind, I'd guess coming over the ridgeline he was trying to cross.
You often get a venturi effect over the top of a ridge, which intensifies the downdrafts on the lee side and also has the effect of locally increasing the wind speed, so a double-whammy if you're heading into it. I've had this happen to me when crossing mountain passes - everything looks OK then you're shot down at the last minute. Once it took me three goes to get over a particularly nasty one in the French Alps but I had several thousand feet of clear air to fall back into and try to climb up again - he didn't, so IMHO a wise decision.
You often get a venturi effect over the top of a ridge, which intensifies the downdrafts on the lee side and also has the effect of locally increasing the wind speed, so a double-whammy if you're heading into it. I've had this happen to me when crossing mountain passes - everything looks OK then you're shot down at the last minute. Once it took me three goes to get over a particularly nasty one in the French Alps but I had several thousand feet of clear air to fall back into and try to climb up again - he didn't, so IMHO a wise decision.
NTSB summary here. When he first uploaded the video he still had some others on his channel, one of which was "My first flight in a single seater" dated about a month before this flight.
If he had turned right from where he was @ 10 seconds he could have positioned himself for a reasonable approach into a couple of areas. By carrying on & hoping for the best he backed himself into a corner until the accident became inevitable. As a student pilot he shouldn't have been out of range of the airfield & if he hadn't had much field landing training it's not surprising that he fixated on trying to make it through the gap.
If he had turned right from where he was @ 10 seconds he could have positioned himself for a reasonable approach into a couple of areas. By carrying on & hoping for the best he backed himself into a corner until the accident became inevitable. As a student pilot he shouldn't have been out of range of the airfield & if he hadn't had much field landing training it's not surprising that he fixated on trying to make it through the gap.
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He was in a pretty low performance glider, so at the speeds he appeared to be flying (to get though the sink) he'd have been dropping like a brick.
Overall he did get a couple of early decisions wrong but at least didn't just press on for the gap with fingers crossed. Approach speed was too high - brakes and sideslipping might have mitigated the touchdown speed but overall he got away with it personally and the glider was repairable so the landing site choice was ultimately a good decision!
Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Glad it wasn't me.
Overall he did get a couple of early decisions wrong but at least didn't just press on for the gap with fingers crossed. Approach speed was too high - brakes and sideslipping might have mitigated the touchdown speed but overall he got away with it personally and the glider was repairable so the landing site choice was ultimately a good decision!
Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Glad it wasn't me.
It's not hindsight. By carrying on he was either going to get through the gap or he was going to crash. If his chances of getting through the gap are only 50:50 then there's a 50% chance he's going to crash.
The only way to improve those odds is to come up with a plan B that has a better than 50% chance of a safe outcome while you still have enough height. The first 2 slices of Swiss cheese in virtually every field landing accident are 1) pressing on, hoping it would get better & 2) late field selection.
The only way to improve those odds is to come up with a plan B that has a better than 50% chance of a safe outcome while you still have enough height. The first 2 slices of Swiss cheese in virtually every field landing accident are 1) pressing on, hoping it would get better & 2) late field selection.
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Makes me wonder about the lack of supervision at this gliding site; power pilots who take up gliding still carry the assumption in the irrational mind that you can put on power and go around.....I've seen exactly this happen.
I wonder if it was his own glider? most gliding ports in the US that I have visited are very very reluctant to let the renter fly cross country. In fact, the instructor/supervisor may have precious little cross country experience; when I was visiting the US, it was not required by the FAA rules.
Choosing a field for an outlanding must be studied, demonstrated in a motor glider, and understood; and in mountains, the local fields must be pinpointed by the local experts at the morning briefing for the benefit of even the most experienced cross-country flatlander. The guy didn't choose his landing area, it chose him. Pressing on and hoping for the best is never a good idea.
I wonder if it was his own glider? most gliding ports in the US that I have visited are very very reluctant to let the renter fly cross country. In fact, the instructor/supervisor may have precious little cross country experience; when I was visiting the US, it was not required by the FAA rules.
Choosing a field for an outlanding must be studied, demonstrated in a motor glider, and understood; and in mountains, the local fields must be pinpointed by the local experts at the morning briefing for the benefit of even the most experienced cross-country flatlander. The guy didn't choose his landing area, it chose him. Pressing on and hoping for the best is never a good idea.