Interesting crash footage from glider.
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PropSwinger
He was lucky!!! He made a sharp right bank itself a manouvre requiring energy ie altitude loss.
He turned towards a higher sharper ridge which could have given an even stronger downdraft and into an area where the only option was the road.
As it was he only just cleared the trees on the left! More downdraft and he would have hit them.
So skillful? Yes! Lucky very much so!!!
I still think he would have made the gap to lower ground.
Mary spot on!! He did not choose his landing site it chose him? It seemed like a last second decision thrust on him and he was lucky to get away with it!
But still credit to him for not stalling out and making the most of a difficult landing site.
Pace
He was lucky!!! He made a sharp right bank itself a manouvre requiring energy ie altitude loss.
He turned towards a higher sharper ridge which could have given an even stronger downdraft and into an area where the only option was the road.
As it was he only just cleared the trees on the left! More downdraft and he would have hit them.
So skillful? Yes! Lucky very much so!!!
I still think he would have made the gap to lower ground.
Mary spot on!! He did not choose his landing site it chose him? It seemed like a last second decision thrust on him and he was lucky to get away with it!
But still credit to him for not stalling out and making the most of a difficult landing site.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 18th Jul 2012 at 07:06.
It is difficult due to lens parallax to accurately judge the distances, clearances and heights solely from that movie. The pilot has freely admitted to a litany of bad calls and errors, but was he did that was right was he flew the aircraft right onto the ground. IMO that is the biggest lesson a low time pilot (glider or powered) should take out of this. As long as you have a controllable aircraft, your fate is still in your hands, so make it happen!
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Field landing accidents do happen to gliders more frequently than other cockups; fortunately in a glider crash you don't need to worry about all that avgas splashing about. Usually, unless there is an invisible power or phone line strung between a couple of trees, the damage is minor, usually the glider protects the pilot from injury. I tell my students "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. A very good landing is when you can use the glider again...."
Having said all that, there was a story - probably true - about a glider in France, landed in a recently harvested field, no damage. Until the trailer was towed in by the owner's swanky new car, and the catalytic converter set the stubble on fire....car, trailer, and glider total write off!
Having said all that, there was a story - probably true - about a glider in France, landed in a recently harvested field, no damage. Until the trailer was towed in by the owner's swanky new car, and the catalytic converter set the stubble on fire....car, trailer, and glider total write off!
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Can't open the video .. am getting a message that says "This Video is Private"
I'd really like to know what prompted him to take it down - too much attention (which I could completely understand) or perhaps some legal reason? (Though I'd hope insurance covers us in case of an outlanding, you know?)
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pboyall wrote [snip]:
An element of bad luck (higher than expected vertical down draughts) which could have ended very nastily indeed. Possibly the rules should have been that you stayed on the airport side of the ridge line ... but having a minimum height was probably reasonable 99% of the time. Not flying gliders I have no clue how rapidly you can sink?
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A low performance glider like the one in the video has a sink rate approaching say 200 fpm (2 knots) at normal or slightly faster cruising speeds, much more with the brakes open which is usual for final approach. Higher performance gliders sink at more like 100 -120fpm (1 - 1.2 knots) at cruise speed.
The glider sink rate is not very significant, however, compared with what the airmass is doing. In the lee side of a ridge with a good wind, the airmass could be sinking at 6, 8 or even more knots. It was that which caused the rapid end of the flight, by the look of it, and probably that which happened before the video clip started but which made him too low to get over the ridge and back to the airport. Getting too far behind the ridge in the first place was probably the first mistake.
Chris N.
An element of bad luck (higher than expected vertical down draughts) which could have ended very nastily indeed. Possibly the rules should have been that you stayed on the airport side of the ridge line ... but having a minimum height was probably reasonable 99% of the time. Not flying gliders I have no clue how rapidly you can sink?
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A low performance glider like the one in the video has a sink rate approaching say 200 fpm (2 knots) at normal or slightly faster cruising speeds, much more with the brakes open which is usual for final approach. Higher performance gliders sink at more like 100 -120fpm (1 - 1.2 knots) at cruise speed.
The glider sink rate is not very significant, however, compared with what the airmass is doing. In the lee side of a ridge with a good wind, the airmass could be sinking at 6, 8 or even more knots. It was that which caused the rapid end of the flight, by the look of it, and probably that which happened before the video clip started but which made him too low to get over the ridge and back to the airport. Getting too far behind the ridge in the first place was probably the first mistake.
Chris N.
Last edited by chrisN; 20th Jul 2012 at 12:39.
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A moment of inattention on the road, and "biff!" you have encountered another vehicle. Do you say "Terribly sorry, Old Chap, entirely my fault!"?
If you did say that your insurance company would not be very happy.....which is no doubt why this story has disappeared from public view.
If you did say that your insurance company would not be very happy.....which is no doubt why this story has disappeared from public view.
News story about someone else landing out in virtually the same place for similar reasons, this time successfully.
It demonstrates the difference between a properly trained pilot accepting the situation, taking control & making a safe landing, & an untrained pilot crossing his fingers & hoping for the best.
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I wish I could attach my old photos of an "emergency landing" The weather was hairy, with giant cu building up and up, yet two professional instructors were still flying with trusting students. The organisation had put pressure on the instructors to complete the course!
Long story short, they were on approach, over the hangar at 800 feet! and got caught in a microbust! so intense was the downdraft they could not achieve the runway and so both gliders turned, and landed downwind in a field about a quarter of a mile away. That is, one landed, the other one cartwheeled and ended up in very small pieces. Amazingly, because the ground was soft, nobody hurt at all. I took photos, and gave copies to the lad who was learning in the wrecked machine.....
A few days later, I recieved a call from the Birmingham newspaper. We hear you had a crash, can you tell us about it? "Oh, no, said I, that was a field landing. Gliders do field landings all the time as a matter of routine>"
The next morning, there was one of my photos of the wreckage on the front page with the headline "CLUB REPRESENTATIVE SAYS WE DO THIS ALL THE TIME!"
Long story short, they were on approach, over the hangar at 800 feet! and got caught in a microbust! so intense was the downdraft they could not achieve the runway and so both gliders turned, and landed downwind in a field about a quarter of a mile away. That is, one landed, the other one cartwheeled and ended up in very small pieces. Amazingly, because the ground was soft, nobody hurt at all. I took photos, and gave copies to the lad who was learning in the wrecked machine.....
A few days later, I recieved a call from the Birmingham newspaper. We hear you had a crash, can you tell us about it? "Oh, no, said I, that was a field landing. Gliders do field landings all the time as a matter of routine>"
The next morning, there was one of my photos of the wreckage on the front page with the headline "CLUB REPRESENTATIVE SAYS WE DO THIS ALL THE TIME!"
[quote]It demonstrates the difference between a properly trained pilot accepting the situation, taking control & making a safe landing, & an untrained pilot crossing his fingers & hoping for the best.
Would these winds have an effect on the into-wind landing distance required? Perhaps more important than the pilot's actions.
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[/QUOTE]Strong headwinds apparently thwarted his plans
[/QUOTE]Strong headwinds apparently thwarted his plans
Maoraigh1, that's exactly the point - pick a field before a field picks you. That way you get to choose where you land, plan a circuit & land into wind.
The first guy was just a passenger.
The first guy was just a passenger.
I had the embarassment of landing out in a field less than 5km from the club on my first silver c x country attempt. Field was small with a cross slope and the CFI of the club could see me each training flight and commented on my poor choice when I got back, but no damage and I was a teenager then!
Looks like in the vid copy, he could have scraped over the ridge if he turned left instead of right and then would have had enough height to make the strip. Seems to be about 4km and 1000 feet higher than the strip where he put down.
Looks like in the vid copy, he could have scraped over the ridge if he turned left instead of right and then would have had enough height to make the strip. Seems to be about 4km and 1000 feet higher than the strip where he put down.
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Thanks, propswinger, for posting the video again, it is very educational......
Only I wish we had been able to hear the pilots remarks after he opened the canopy and stepped out......wonder what he said!
Only I wish we had been able to hear the pilots remarks after he opened the canopy and stepped out......wonder what he said!
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Noisy glider and I didn't like the way the wind noise dropped turning right onto finals. Struck me he slowed down there. I also didn't like the way the wing looked to be moving WRT the fus at the end.
Anyone know what kind of glider it was? Not many have a canopy that hinges on the left instead of the front or right.
Anyone know what kind of glider it was? Not many have a canopy that hinges on the left instead of the front or right.
It looks like a marginal field next to the road. A slightly earlier decision would have given him an upslope landing, if downwind.
I took a 3,000' tow into wave in an L-13. After release it was never better than -8 and I immediately pointed the glider back to the field. Not too many minutes after, the field was out of sight and at 2,000' I was getting into field selection and picked the one with the thinnest crop. Very quickly after, I was down to 1,000; so took it. I landed at the same time as the towplane, but was 2 miles short.
Most times you pick a field and start a laborious process of digging yourself out hanging about the field taking for itty bitty pieces of lift until you either grab a decent thermal or or have to land. Doesn't happen that way in ridge or wave.
One would think that his instructors would have pointed out the decent outlanding sites before turning him loose in such a hostile area. Perhaps the towpilot thought he was more experienced and took him where he would not normally take solo students.
I took a 3,000' tow into wave in an L-13. After release it was never better than -8 and I immediately pointed the glider back to the field. Not too many minutes after, the field was out of sight and at 2,000' I was getting into field selection and picked the one with the thinnest crop. Very quickly after, I was down to 1,000; so took it. I landed at the same time as the towplane, but was 2 miles short.
Most times you pick a field and start a laborious process of digging yourself out hanging about the field taking for itty bitty pieces of lift until you either grab a decent thermal or or have to land. Doesn't happen that way in ridge or wave.
One would think that his instructors would have pointed out the decent outlanding sites before turning him loose in such a hostile area. Perhaps the towpilot thought he was more experienced and took him where he would not normally take solo students.