Airfield QNH - what's the point?
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Talking of Mode S, can someone please explain why, a piece of electronic equipment should cost so much more than any other piece? Just because it says Aviation on the tin? I really don't know just how super special the component parts are within such a device. One can buy the most super computer for a fraction of the cost.
High cost of development, high cost of certification. Worst of all: Small market, i.e. not many units sold, to share that initial cost.
Remember the first CD players, or the first video recorders, or the first mobile phones? All were initially quite expensive, but their price soon fell dramatically. That fall is not going to happen to avionics, more's the pity.
Remember the first CD players, or the first video recorders, or the first mobile phones? All were initially quite expensive, but their price soon fell dramatically. That fall is not going to happen to avionics, more's the pity.
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Talking of Mode S, can someone please explain why, a piece of electronic equipment should cost so much more than any other piece? Just because it says Aviation on the tin? I really don't know just how super special the component parts are within such a device. One can buy the most super computer for a fraction of the cost.
Originally Posted by Flyingmac
I can't for the life of me, see why anyone would PREFER to fly a circuit with reference to sea level . Maybe they just like to complicate matters.
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Talking of Mode S, can someone please explain why, a piece of electronic equipment should cost so much more than any other piece?
2. Certified kit cannot be sold direct so dealer margins need to be built in
3. Certification is not cheap (though immaterial in the long run; most "boxes" we know became pure cash cows long ago)
4. Avionics that sell successfully (Garmin, Garmin, etc) are very profitable
5. It's always been that way, and in business you never bomb the market price even if you can
FYI - the cost of building a GNS430W is about $300. The cost of building a GTX330 is about $150.
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Thank you all, typical rip off as I would expect.
Doesn't this sort of thing encourage the "black market". Shirley it wouldn't be difficult to clone such stuff?
Doesn't this sort of thing encourage the "black market". Shirley it wouldn't be difficult to clone such stuff?
Cheese us! If it's not difficult in your eyes, go for it! Just do it, man! There's money to be made, there!
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 16th Jul 2012 at 10:09.
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Doesn't this sort of thing encourage the "black market". Shirley it wouldn't be difficult to clone such stuff?
The sales of certified avionics are almost totally dependent on the loyalty of avionics installers who in most cases recommend the product and in virtually all cases install it.
The big names like Garmin and Honeywell (notwithstanding the fact that Honeywell washed their hands of GA avionics about 15 years ago) have massive dealer/installer loyalty.
This reseller pipeline is not easy to convert to selling something new.
Their gross margin (i.e. the dealer discount) is of the order of 25%, so if you get a quote for a £10k box with a £2k install cost, the installer is making £2.5k just by ordering the box, plus the £2k installation fee. If he didn't make the 2.5k (if e.g. you buy the box discount from the USA by mail order) he would have to charge you £4.5k for the installation, to make the same money overall. So selling a £5k box which does the same job is completely not in their interest - unless they sell at least 2x as many, which is unlikely given the fairly stagnant market.
Next comes the mfg support. While there are some smart avionics installers, most IME are just wiremen who pick up the installation manual for the box, turn to the back of it where the wiring diagrams are, and they pick the one which most nearly represents your existing aircraft equipment
It really isn't rocket science, in most cases. This also means that many installers get themselves into a total pickle when they are asked to do something not trivial, and often deliver installations that are only partly functional (e.g. an EHSI installation where the course pointer does not go back to the GPS, for OBS setting purposes). A chinese mfg is unlikely to deliver much support to the installer.A straight copy (counterfeit) is going to fall foul of copyright laws, etc.
It's not easy today to take on Garmin. Look at where Avidyne are. Talk talk and more talk, and it's obvious they have lost the plot. A once mightly company is IMHO surviving on the sales of old cash cows like the TAS600.
The stagnant market, and the fact that so much GA is so tight you could not get a #1 Pozi up their back end, means that anybody doing a Mode S transponder (and there are several people doing them) is going to price the product only just below Garmin's price. You can call it a ripoff but it's really only good business
If you get aggressive, and get visibly successful, Garmin can just halve their prices overnight and still make a gross margin of some 80% And wipe you out.If one could sell certified boxes direct to users, everything would change. You would have full featured autopilot systems for a few k, etc. Look at the US Experimental scene...
Certification cost is not a major thing, a few years down the road. It is mostly affected by how well you know the process, and the big names will have staff in-house who know exactly what to do. A newcomer will be starting from scratch.
It's the same in non-aviation certified areas; try getting a BASEEFA approval for a product from a company nobody has heard of. The BASEEFA officer basically tells you to ***k off, probably because you are delaying his lunch date with the rep from one of the big names
You will get much the same response on your first contact with the FAA or EASA. Relationships matter..........
