IAOPA sets out its stall on PPL licensing to the US and Europe

[mad_jock]

I am of mixed feelings about it.

If I had never heard of anyone failing said check I would be quite happy to say bin it.

But you do hear of people failing the check.

In the twin world you do need a practise at the single engine stuff. I certainly don't begrudge doing my 6 monthly checks but yet again I don't pay for them.

[Pace]

MadJock

Other than with the N reg issue I am sure we would get on extremely well. Your attitude on this is sad and misplaced.
You take the attitude of a football team supporter of them and us rather than US or what is in all our best interests in aviation so that we have a thriving industry.
You and many others have for a long time had a misplaced snobbish attitude to JAA licences (they have to be harder and far more expensive so that makes us the Elite of worldwide pilots far superior to anything out there.Every other licence authority churns out sub standard pilots.)
Sadly the reverse has been shown to be the case and no statistical evidence can back up to european training and burcratic interference equalling better standards.
So my friend stop being a football hooligan and realise where the real threat to your livelyhood comes from! It is not the FAA but your beloved EASA.
Your point re european pilots should fly European licences? Any sensible person would have taken the opporunity that EASA had and made things so attractive that no one would want an FAA reg aircraft here in Europe.
Yes you may win out in the end and have a regulation and burocratic riddled industry with no more than people carriers gracing our skies and you will state with glee that you won but sorry mate we all will have Lost.

Mad Jock this is what you are fighting for to create

The airline industry - in serious financial trouble - Public Service Europe

Pace

[bookworm]

Yet, that argument is totally spurious because the fact is that the FAA does not abuse the system.

Of course it doesn't. Because it can't. But if the US becomes the country that writes the world's aviation regulation, it can and will abuse that position to the competitive advantage of US industry. Not because it's evil, but because it can, and it's not stupid. It's the role of a government.

[Pace]

Of course it doesn't. Because it can't. But if the US becomes the country that writes the world's aviation regulation, it can and will abuse that position to the competitive advantage of US industry. Not because it's evil, but because it can, and it's not stupid. It's the role of a government.

Bookworm

Is not the biggest abuse of the system and crusher of competative advantage strangulation of the aviation industry caused by excessive regulation and burocratic intervention as well as any political and tax loading to pay for a big brother state?

Surely in any free market the market dictates? create freedom for that market and the competativeness comes naturally.

Was it not the Mrs T policy to load industry with the least amount of government and state intervention as possible now its gone the other way with maximum government intervention and needless interferance in every walk of life all costing the industry a strangling fortune and the very reason Europe is collapsing like a pack of cards? We cannot afford all that expensive rubbish anymore.

As for competativeness why do you think any labour intensive production goes to places like China India etc. With that argument you may as well put trade blocks to imports from those areas

Pace

[bookworm]

Is not the biggest abuse of the system and crusher of competative advantage strangulation of the aviation industry caused by excessive regulation and burocratic intervention as well as any political and tax loading to pay for a big brother state?

Yes.

Surely in any free market the market dictates? create freedom for that market and the competativeness comes naturally.

Yes, with caveats about the nature of the market. But we don't have a free market. We don't have a free global market. We don't have a free market between the USA and the EU. We don't even have a free market within the EU if different states play by different rules, which is the motivation for standardisation of rules at the EU level.

Was it not the Mrs T policy to load industry with the least amount of government and state intervention as possible now its gone the other way with maximum government intervention and needless interferance in every walk of life all costing the industry a strangling fortune and the very reason Europe is collapsing like a pack of cards? We cannot afford all that expensive rubbish anymore.

So "Europe is collapsing like a pack of cards" because the banks were overregulated?

[peterh337]

But if the US becomes the country that writes the world's aviation regulation,

It already is, and always has been.

The bulk of EASA regs are FARs, copied/pasted, usually (not always) with the paragraphs renumbered

it can and will abuse that position to the competitive advantage of US industry. Not because it's evil, but because it can, and it's not stupid. It's the role of a government.

Yet there is no evidence of the USA ever trying to cripple European plane makers by writing the FARs to suit its own makers.

It is EASA that has done that, by blatently defining "complex" to be (IIRC) > 18 seats, or ME turboprop, or jet, which lets in the TBM and the PC12, while sticking a finger up to Beech's King Air. If Europe had a light jet industry, EASA would not have done that, for sure. Diamond's SE jet has been stillborn for years... not a shock given its MTOW being > 2T and its certified ceiling of FL250

The FARs have been pretty much fixed for donkeys years, with the meaningless 12500lb (5700kg) limit for a Type Rating, etc. The USA doesn't change things for the sake of it. If it works, they usually leave it.

The rest of the world, including the darkest Africa, runs its own CAAs, and if you didn't like the FAA, and there was no EASA, and Europe's CAAs contracted certification to the FAA, you could always reg your plane in the People's Democratic Republic of Upper Volta, etc.

But the fact is that Europe has always had its own certification regime so how exactly could the USA change its FARs to suit US business? You can fly a Euro-reg plane worldwide, if you have matching pilot licenses, and that includes keeping it on US soil. The reason why almost nobody keeps Euro-reg planes on US soil is because they would fail their next medical (lack of a brain).

If the USA was to ban Airbus selling in the USA, or selling to the US military, it would be due to bribery of US officials by Airbus.

This discussion is worse than the similarly contrived argument for Galileo.

So "Europe is collapsing like a pack of cards" because the banks were overregulated?

The EU is collapsing because career-focussed Euro politicians who could not see past the end of their noses created the Eurozone, invited the southern countries to join it even though everybody knew it would wipe out the little export business they had, and the southern countries did the obvious thing which was to borrow billions at ~1%, which they could do because everybody "knew" that Germany would always pay it off (and anyway the bankers got their bonuses early so a later default wouldn't matter) and they had a huge mexican party with it ... oh and bought a few tens of thousands of German cars while they were at it. Germany paid massive bribes to lubricate business down there, too, which probably didn't help. Come to think of it, they did the same in the USA too.

[mad_jock]

As I said if nobody ever failed it I wouldn't have an issue with it being by experence.

But I do know of several people who have failed it while doing way more than the minimum experence that is required by the rolling setup.

I really haven't lost anything. And its only a very very small amount of the 450 000 pilots in the EU that this is going to be even a passing glance for.

Either way it is going to have zero effect on my life.

I have never had an issue yet getting my JAR license either converted or validated and like it or not it is seen as a gold standard in alot of places especially a UK one.

[bookworm]

The bulk of EASA regs are FARs, copied/pasted, usually (not always) with the paragraphs renumbered

And if they all were, you wouldn't be so pissed off, would you?

It's not about them all having to be different, it's about having control.

Clearly, I'm not going to convince you of the rationale behind the need for EU aviation regulation. So you'll just have to continue believing that it's all the fault of corrupt and stupid EU politicians, many of whom have a personal vendetta against you. Good luck if you're right.

[peterh337]

Yes; Italy has a lot of industry, especially chemicals. I buy acetal resin in a custom shade of green from there, 2000kg at a time

I think Italy is really what Germany is worried about; Spain a bit less, and the rest much less...

The euro has damaged everybody down there. Bizzarely, it is currently in Germany's interest for the eurozone to be packed with virtually bankrupt countries, because that keeps the euro weak and enables Germany to export. What Germany doesn't want is a resolution to the crisis, either way. It doesn't want the zone to go actually bankrupt and need bailing out, and likewise it doesn't want the zone to strongly export-recover as that would revalue the euro and make German exports less competitive - as would a shrinkage of the euro to the north only.

450k pilots in the EU? Only if you count kites, MJ, and kitesurfers. The UK has the biggest GA scene, about 20k pilots with valid medicals (CAA figure), along with Germany which is probably similar. France #3, the rest of Europe much less. 450k is nonsense.

[Pace]

Peter/ Bookworm

The commission and other EC bodies are unelected while up to now have had powers they should not have had.
There have been recent changes which has given those powers back to the EC Parliament.
That is the reason AOPA have employed a full time Lobbyist in the last few weeks.
Anone know anything about this and the likely impact it could have?

Pace

[mad_jock]

Know nothing but think its to late to change things.

The faceless ones that have been driving this have had ten years which to plan and fine tune there process.