Is my licence valid?
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Is my licence valid?
I live in the USA and have got a CAA PPL from the UK, and an FAA licence that says it is based upon the restrictions attached to my UK licence. Yesterday my biennial expired on my UK licence. However I still have a year to run on the FAA biennial that I got last year. So the question is am I legal to fly here in the States on the FAA flight review, or do I need to find myself a British instructor to do my biennial.
Thanks for any help offered.
Thanks for any help offered.
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or...even worse....as your UK licence has already expired...do you need to find a UK examiner to do a full skill test??
I notice your profile says you are in Oshkosh - are you going to Sun n' Fun (Lakeland) next week?
I notice your profile says you are in Oshkosh - are you going to Sun n' Fun (Lakeland) next week?
When I obtained my FAA Temporary Airman Certificate to fly under PPL privileges in the US (not that I've ever actually done so), the FAA chap picked up the US certificate in one hand and the UK licence in the other. "This", he said, waving the US certificate "is only valid if this UK licence is kept valid".
So I would say that if your FAA licence is a Temporary Airman Certificate, then no - as your UK SEP Class Rating has now become invalid, you will need to renew it by flying a SEP renewal proficiency check with a UK Flight Examiner before it can be revalidated. The flight is quite straightforward, you will need to fill out a LPC-SPA form as well but (assuming you pass the check) your licence will be valid as soon as the FE signs it - and you will not have to send any cheque to the CAA either!
However, if you have a full FAA PPL, you should be OK to fly on that as you've flown a BFR. I'm not sure why you bothered with a BFR if you held a Temporary Airman Certificate - the FAA told me that a BFR is NOT needed if your UK licence is kept valid.....
So I would say that if your FAA licence is a Temporary Airman Certificate, then no - as your UK SEP Class Rating has now become invalid, you will need to renew it by flying a SEP renewal proficiency check with a UK Flight Examiner before it can be revalidated. The flight is quite straightforward, you will need to fill out a LPC-SPA form as well but (assuming you pass the check) your licence will be valid as soon as the FE signs it - and you will not have to send any cheque to the CAA either!
However, if you have a full FAA PPL, you should be OK to fly on that as you've flown a BFR. I'm not sure why you bothered with a BFR if you held a Temporary Airman Certificate - the FAA told me that a BFR is NOT needed if your UK licence is kept valid.....
Last edited by BEagle; 2nd Apr 2002 at 06:39.
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BEagle,
I was told the opposite - you do need a FAA BFR in order to use your FAA certificate based on a foreign license. I was told this by the FAA guy who did the paperwork for the certificate, as well as the instructors at the school I was hiring from.
FFF
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I was told the opposite - you do need a FAA BFR in order to use your FAA certificate based on a foreign license. I was told this by the FAA guy who did the paperwork for the certificate, as well as the instructors at the school I was hiring from.
FFF
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I have control
Your US license is invalid until you renew your UK licence.
If you look on the back of your certificate it says "Issued on basis and valid only when accompanied by UK license number ******. All limitations and restrictions on the Uk license apply."
Airclues
Your US license is invalid until you renew your UK licence.
If you look on the back of your certificate it says "Issued on basis and valid only when accompanied by UK license number ******. All limitations and restrictions on the Uk license apply."
Airclues
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I think some of the earlier replies are incorrect although I have no authority to refer you to. My understanding is that your FAA license is valid all the time your UK license is valid. Valid does not mean your UK medical or proficiency check has to be valid, simply that your UK license is valid. Of course an old style license is for life but the new license requires renewal every two years I think. That seems to me to make sense because for your FAA license to be valid so must your FAA biennial and your medical. You cannot rely on your UK proficiency check not least because the aspects covered in each of these checks are different. For example power on stalls are not usually included in the UK proficiency check but are very much a part of your FAA biennial. Interestingly there are some examiners in the UK who will cover both the UK proficiency check and FAA biennial in the same hour, and then sign of both.
I suggest you take a look at the FARs for a definitive understanding.
I suggest you take a look at the FARs for a definitive understanding.
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IHC if your Uk licence is not valid in every respect then your FAA ticket which is really only what we in "Euroland" would call a "validation" is not current.Your FAA ticket only stands if supported by a completely valid Uk licence as clearly stated on the FAA piece of cardboard.Of course in the UK FAA licence holders (or any ICAO recognised licence) are free to exercise private day VFR priveleges without any fomalities whatsoever subject to their licence being valid in their own system.So no real difference except the FAA have introduced an additional piece of bureaucracy,so much for the land of the free.I believe the Canadian PPL never expires and has no recency requirements so is a very useful licence to get as a "stand alone " ticket.Any of our Canadian friends like to comment on the accuracy of this!!?
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Thanks for the information everyone.
It looks like I need to get my UK proficiency check done to stay legal.
I did the FAA check because having it was an insurance requirement of the flying club I am a member of.
GoneWest, yes I am flying down to Sun n' Fun later this week (I work for EAA). Guess I'll be stopping by one of the "British" flight schools somewhere along the way!
It looks like I need to get my UK proficiency check done to stay legal.
I did the FAA check because having it was an insurance requirement of the flying club I am a member of.
GoneWest, yes I am flying down to Sun n' Fun later this week (I work for EAA). Guess I'll be stopping by one of the "British" flight schools somewhere along the way!
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Stampe - this is an interesting topic - I was told emphatically by an FAA examiner that if you hold a valid UK license but have no current UK medical or proficiency check that was fine so long as your FAA biennial was current and your medical was current. Even if your UK proficiency check is current you must have a current FAA biennial.
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Fuji yes it certainly is I guess if you talk to ten FAA inspectors you,ll get as many different answers.I,ve raised this one many times in the States at schools and with the FAA.Whenever I,ve rented I,ve never had to have a bienniel only a quick check ride but as I don,t fly Stateside anymore haven,t rented over there for about 3 years.I think most people are confused about the so called licence the FAA give them issued on the basis of their "earnt" licence its really a validation yet you hear lots of people talk about having an "American licence" but without their Uk one being valid they have nothing at all.Its one area where our licencing authorities are way ahead in how we treat visiting ICAO licence holders for day VFR priveleges.I promise the confusion on this one will run a run.
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FAR 61.75 has some info on this..
However, it's FAR 61.19 that addresses your question. It says:
(c) Other pilot certificates. A pilot certificate (other than a student pilot certificate) issued under this part is issued without a specific expiration date. The holder of a pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license may exercise the privileges of that certificate only while that person's foreign pilot license is effective.
So whatever you heard (even from FAA inspectors) contrary to this is not correct.
However, it's FAR 61.19 that addresses your question. It says:
(c) Other pilot certificates. A pilot certificate (other than a student pilot certificate) issued under this part is issued without a specific expiration date. The holder of a pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license may exercise the privileges of that certificate only while that person's foreign pilot license is effective.
So whatever you heard (even from FAA inspectors) contrary to this is not correct.
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For a UK licence to be valid it must have the following:
Licence document within validity period (Life, 10 yrs or 5 yrs)
Valid aircraft rating (SEP 24 months) i.e. validity date not passed.
Valid Medical (6 mths - 5 years depending on age)
All signed by licensee
If you don't meet all of these criteria your UK licence is not valid and your FAA validation Certificate is not valid either.
Licence document within validity period (Life, 10 yrs or 5 yrs)
Valid aircraft rating (SEP 24 months) i.e. validity date not passed.
Valid Medical (6 mths - 5 years depending on age)
All signed by licensee
If you don't meet all of these criteria your UK licence is not valid and your FAA validation Certificate is not valid either.
So to summarise then,
1. You have a FAA Temporary Airman Certificate, not an FAA PPL.
2. To fly under PPL privileges in the USA, you need to have this certificate plus a valid UK licence.
3. To have a valid UK licence:
a. Your licence must be within the correct validity period.
b. You must have a valid rating (e.g. SEP Class Rating).
c. You must have a current JAR medical certificate.
4. You do not need an FAA BFR to keep your temporary airman certificate valid.
.....is that correct, Noggin?
1. You have a FAA Temporary Airman Certificate, not an FAA PPL.
2. To fly under PPL privileges in the USA, you need to have this certificate plus a valid UK licence.
3. To have a valid UK licence:
a. Your licence must be within the correct validity period.
b. You must have a valid rating (e.g. SEP Class Rating).
c. You must have a current JAR medical certificate.
4. You do not need an FAA BFR to keep your temporary airman certificate valid.
.....is that correct, Noggin?
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You have got to have
1. A current UK class 2 Medical
2. A valid UK aircraft rating which must includes a current UK BFR
so if you haven't got all that then your FAA certificate is invalid to fly in the USA.
That's all taken off of documents from the beehive sent to me yesterday in response to a similar query.
1. A current UK class 2 Medical
2. A valid UK aircraft rating which must includes a current UK BFR
so if you haven't got all that then your FAA certificate is invalid to fly in the USA.
That's all taken off of documents from the beehive sent to me yesterday in response to a similar query.
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Beagle,
Almost correct though there seems to be a bit of misunderstanding regarding the FAA Temporary Airmans certificate. When you fist get the licence, they issue a Temporary Aimans Certificate, valid for 4 months which you can use to fly on until your (not temporary) Airmans certificate is delivered to you through the post. Now it is no longer temporary but full FAA PPL but restricted to use with ICAO licence (noted on back).
Your ICAO PPL must be valid in all respects for the FAA AC to be valid, including ratings. This excludes medical though IF you hold an FAA medical.
Ratings added on to the FAA PPL are marked 'US Test Passed', and are now no longer subject to the restrictions of the ICAO PPL (ie. I have no multi on my JAA licence, but have FAA multi).
For the FAA PPL AC to be valid, then you must comply with the relevant FARs which require a BFR to have taken place within the preceeding two years. Normally a club checkout will do, as long as the instructor notes that it was a BFR in your logbook.
Cheers
EA
Almost correct though there seems to be a bit of misunderstanding regarding the FAA Temporary Airmans certificate. When you fist get the licence, they issue a Temporary Aimans Certificate, valid for 4 months which you can use to fly on until your (not temporary) Airmans certificate is delivered to you through the post. Now it is no longer temporary but full FAA PPL but restricted to use with ICAO licence (noted on back).
Your ICAO PPL must be valid in all respects for the FAA AC to be valid, including ratings. This excludes medical though IF you hold an FAA medical.
Ratings added on to the FAA PPL are marked 'US Test Passed', and are now no longer subject to the restrictions of the ICAO PPL (ie. I have no multi on my JAA licence, but have FAA multi).
For the FAA PPL AC to be valid, then you must comply with the relevant FARs which require a BFR to have taken place within the preceeding two years. Normally a club checkout will do, as long as the instructor notes that it was a BFR in your logbook.
Cheers
EA
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Beagle
Not Quite! Temporary Certificate Airman is just a holding document. Under FAR 61.75 holders of a current ICAO pilot licences may be issued with a FAA Private Pilot Certificate that is stamped RESTRICTED USE.
On the reverse it carries LIMITATIONS stating: "Issued on the basis of and valid only when accompanied by (UK) pilot License No:xxxx All Limitations and Restrictions on the UK pilot licence apply.
It does not actually say the UK licence has to be valid! FAR 61.75 says the pilot certificate issued will be valid provided the foreign licence has not been revoked or suspended. It also says the foreign licence must be carried.
FAR-61.75 says to be valid, the holder must have either a medical certificate issued under FAR Part 67, or a current medical certificate issued by the country that issued the foreign licence.
A Part 67 medical might validate the FAA Certificate but would not meet the requirements of Art 26, so the UK licence would not be valid.
It appears we have all assumed the UK licence needs to be valid, but I can't find a reference to it. At the end of the day its up to the FAA.
Neither FAR 61.75 nor 61.56 say that the holder of a Restricted Certificate needs a BFR.
Not Quite! Temporary Certificate Airman is just a holding document. Under FAR 61.75 holders of a current ICAO pilot licences may be issued with a FAA Private Pilot Certificate that is stamped RESTRICTED USE.
On the reverse it carries LIMITATIONS stating: "Issued on the basis of and valid only when accompanied by (UK) pilot License No:xxxx All Limitations and Restrictions on the UK pilot licence apply.
It does not actually say the UK licence has to be valid! FAR 61.75 says the pilot certificate issued will be valid provided the foreign licence has not been revoked or suspended. It also says the foreign licence must be carried.
FAR-61.75 says to be valid, the holder must have either a medical certificate issued under FAR Part 67, or a current medical certificate issued by the country that issued the foreign licence.
A Part 67 medical might validate the FAA Certificate but would not meet the requirements of Art 26, so the UK licence would not be valid.
It appears we have all assumed the UK licence needs to be valid, but I can't find a reference to it. At the end of the day its up to the FAA.
Neither FAR 61.75 nor 61.56 say that the holder of a Restricted Certificate needs a BFR.
Last edited by Noggin; 3rd Apr 2002 at 18:57.
Thanks chaps - I stand corrected. Have had a look at that tatty bit of cardboard issued by the FAA and it does indeed state as you say. Can't go crop-dusting though. Oh dear, what a pity, never mind!
Simple enough - valid UK PPL with SEP Rating plus that bit of Uncle Spam's cardboard means it's OK to fly under PPL privilieges in the US. Anything less - perhaps yes, perhaps no, perhaps maybe......
Simple enough - valid UK PPL with SEP Rating plus that bit of Uncle Spam's cardboard means it's OK to fly under PPL privilieges in the US. Anything less - perhaps yes, perhaps no, perhaps maybe......
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Noggin
FAR 61.75(a) states that a person holding a current foreign pilots license may be issued with a private pilots certificate. Does the word 'current' not imply that the foreign licence must be valid?
Airclues
FAR 61.75(a) states that a person holding a current foreign pilots license may be issued with a private pilots certificate. Does the word 'current' not imply that the foreign licence must be valid?
Airclues
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He doesnt have a temporary airmans certificate, as those are only valid for 120 days from date of issue. What he has is a restricted FAA PPL. Although it says its has to supported by a current CAA licence, his FAA BFR superceeds the CAA currency as he is using it in the US.
The short answer is that you are legal until your FAA BFR expires
The short answer is that you are legal until your FAA BFR expires