iPad bulit in GPS
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iPad bulit in GPS
Hi all,
I am looking to buy an iPad to use with Airbox Runway HD for iPad. I was wondering whether anyone had any experience of actually navigating using the iPad's built in GPS as opposed to an external receiver?
Obviously external will be more accurate but I was curious to know whether (in someone's personal experience) the built in GPS was good enough to get by on?
Thanks in advance for the advice!
I am looking to buy an iPad to use with Airbox Runway HD for iPad. I was wondering whether anyone had any experience of actually navigating using the iPad's built in GPS as opposed to an external receiver?
Obviously external will be more accurate but I was curious to know whether (in someone's personal experience) the built in GPS was good enough to get by on?
Thanks in advance for the advice!
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Went along with an ex-student on a 7 hour round trip recently, they had skydemon on an ipad2. Worked really well, battery lasted on about 2/3 brightness, (rare sunny day 
). No issues at all with it's internal GPS and receiver, in a PA28.
). No issues at all with it's internal GPS and receiver, in a PA28.
Last edited by mrmum; 20th Jun 2012 at 19:15. Reason: Add aircraft type
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Mirror everything said above. I have an I pad 3, running Sky Demon, and internal GPS I have had no issue with. I have however bought an XGPS150E which I now run in tandem. Works brilliantly
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I have completed around 60 hours with sky demon on ipad1 with built in GPS. Never a problem.
However... Last night went for an evening flight and lost GPS lock at 5000ft
I also tried using my IPad on a commercial flight back from Nice. I have the track plotted beautifully up to 10,000ft, but then it disappears until the descent into Gatwick.
Anyone know why the lock gets worse with altitude?
However... Last night went for an evening flight and lost GPS lock at 5000ft
I also tried using my IPad on a commercial flight back from Nice. I have the track plotted beautifully up to 10,000ft, but then it disappears until the descent into Gatwick.
Anyone know why the lock gets worse with altitude?
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I find the internal Ipad2 GPS to have rubbish reliability in the air (aircraft TB20GT) though it works great on the ground. I use the XGPS150 bluetooth GPS which works great - you can get them from Expansys.
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Peter,
Can you use the add-on GPS on an iPad that has the built-in? I assume you are saying you can. I've avoided the external one as i figured it is something else to power up, lose connection and go wrong... but if it is better i'm interested. How do you switch between using internal versus bluetooth?
Cheers,
-Carl.
Can you use the add-on GPS on an iPad that has the built-in? I assume you are saying you can. I've avoided the external one as i figured it is something else to power up, lose connection and go wrong... but if it is better i'm interested. How do you switch between using internal versus bluetooth?
Cheers,
-Carl.
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Yes you can - my Ipad2 is the 3G+GPS version.
It appears that the operating system's GPS API automatically uses an external GPS if one is found.
Quite how it decides whether the external one is more or less usable / accurate than the internal one, I don't know.
It's the same issue with auto selecting WIFI v. GPRS/3G for internet access, and on those the Iphone/Ipad products do it poorly, if both sources are roughly equally poor. In fact they tend to lock onto "unsecured" WIFI access points but most of those are nowadays commercial pay ones which provide no connectivity, so if you want to use GPRS/3G reliably you want to switch off WIFI. But there is no config option for selecting the GPS source similarly.
I don't know if any Ipad apps have an explicit selection for the GPS source. MM certainly doesn't.
I don't like the idea of an external GPS, due to yet another thing which needs to be charged up etc. In my plane I have an old bluetooth GPS which has an external antenna socket and an external power socket, and it is velcroed under the dash and wired to a dedicated rooftop antenna and is powered from the aircraft. Any moving map device can use it. But of couse no Church of Jobs device will talk to a standard NMEA GPS
I am not aware of any Ipad compatible GPS (there are I believe just 3 or so types, against the hundreds of NMEA ones) which can be thus connected. So I don't use the Ipad for navigation when flying.
It appears that the operating system's GPS API automatically uses an external GPS if one is found.
Quite how it decides whether the external one is more or less usable / accurate than the internal one, I don't know.
It's the same issue with auto selecting WIFI v. GPRS/3G for internet access, and on those the Iphone/Ipad products do it poorly, if both sources are roughly equally poor. In fact they tend to lock onto "unsecured" WIFI access points but most of those are nowadays commercial pay ones which provide no connectivity, so if you want to use GPRS/3G reliably you want to switch off WIFI. But there is no config option for selecting the GPS source similarly.
I don't know if any Ipad apps have an explicit selection for the GPS source. MM certainly doesn't.
I don't like the idea of an external GPS, due to yet another thing which needs to be charged up etc. In my plane I have an old bluetooth GPS which has an external antenna socket and an external power socket, and it is velcroed under the dash and wired to a dedicated rooftop antenna and is powered from the aircraft. Any moving map device can use it. But of couse no Church of Jobs device will talk to a standard NMEA GPS
I am not aware of any Ipad compatible GPS (there are I believe just 3 or so types, against the hundreds of NMEA ones) which can be thus connected. So I don't use the Ipad for navigation when flying.
Last edited by peterh337; 21st Jun 2012 at 07:52.
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I'm fairly sure that iPad apps are locked into using the Apple API rather than any sort of direct communication with the GPS, so if you can't switch inside the global settings, you can't switch at all.
On the WIFI/3G Apple likes to assume that WIFI is always better.... which if you're on the edge of coverage of WIFI is a nightmare. At least you can switch it off I guess
On the WIFI/3G Apple likes to assume that WIFI is always better.... which if you're on the edge of coverage of WIFI is a nightmare. At least you can switch it off I guess
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The XGPS150 has a free apple shop app which displays the satellite status - something which the apple API blocks apps from accessing.
The fact that this app was not banned from the normally highly anal apple shop suggests that apple don't exactly mind an app talking to a bluetooth GPS directly.
So in principle another app could do the same.
The problem with today's WIFI situation is that most (and in some countries I have been to recently, e.g. Greece, absolutely 100% all that I came across) un-encrypted access points are commercial (pay) ones. It would be trivial for the Ipad to check connectivity by e.g. going to a known website and doing a quick HTTP request but currently no retail product I know of does that. In fact apple already have a web page which seems to be exactly for that kind of purpose But this is digressing...
The fact that this app was not banned from the normally highly anal apple shop suggests that apple don't exactly mind an app talking to a bluetooth GPS directly.
So in principle another app could do the same.
The problem with today's WIFI situation is that most (and in some countries I have been to recently, e.g. Greece, absolutely 100% all that I came across) un-encrypted access points are commercial (pay) ones. It would be trivial for the Ipad to check connectivity by e.g. going to a known website and doing a quick HTTP request but currently no retail product I know of does that. In fact apple already have a web page which seems to be exactly for that kind of purpose
But this is digressing...
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That's interesting... I guess Apple can break their own rules occasionally! (or ... it just slipped through and nobody noticed)
The apple success page is quite a good idea, once DHCP request completes and a WIFI is linked up it visits that page. If it gets back the standard response it lets you continue, otherwise it pops up the browser that lets you log in to the commercial access point.
I guess they could leave the GPRS working and servicing requests right up until that success page returns a positive, but actually it flips everything over which is annoying. So if you cancel the popup, and then go browsing - you get straight back to the WIFI captive portal again. Its annoying that it will remember the fact you once tried to connect to a commercial wifi and will forever after connect you back up to it again ... i often go into my settings and 'forget' all the networks I don't regularly use.
As you said... we digressed somewhat here! Back to topic....
It sounds like we are safe to conclude that the built-in GPS is pretty good for most purposes, but drops out at altitude and also in some weather conditions. Certainly my steam powered Garmin 496 has a better link. I will be buying an external one as per Peter's recommendations and hopefully that closes the gap, not least because you can put it on the top of the panel which should give it a slightly less obstructed view of the sky.
The apple success page is quite a good idea, once DHCP request completes and a WIFI is linked up it visits that page. If it gets back the standard response it lets you continue, otherwise it pops up the browser that lets you log in to the commercial access point.
I guess they could leave the GPRS working and servicing requests right up until that success page returns a positive, but actually it flips everything over which is annoying. So if you cancel the popup, and then go browsing - you get straight back to the WIFI captive portal again. Its annoying that it will remember the fact you once tried to connect to a commercial wifi and will forever after connect you back up to it again ... i often go into my settings and 'forget' all the networks I don't regularly use.
As you said... we digressed somewhat here! Back to topic....
It sounds like we are safe to conclude that the built-in GPS is pretty good for most purposes, but drops out at altitude and also in some weather conditions. Certainly my steam powered Garmin 496 has a better link. I will be buying an external one as per Peter's recommendations and hopefully that closes the gap, not least because you can put it on the top of the panel which should give it a slightly less obstructed view of the sky.
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However... Last night went for an evening flight and lost GPS lock at 5000ft
I also tried using my IPad on a commercial flight back from Nice. I have the track plotted beautifully up to 10,000ft, but then it disappears until the descent into Gatwick.
Anyone know why the lock gets worse with altitude?
I also tried using my IPad on a commercial flight back from Nice. I have the track plotted beautifully up to 10,000ft, but then it disappears until the descent into Gatwick.
Anyone know why the lock gets worse with altitude?
Andy
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Despite my initial scepticism, it does seem to work pretty well. I make sure it's got a GPS lock on the ground (or at low altitude) and it "just works". Granted I've only used it quickly for testing during the free trial, but I'm going to purchase it and give it a proper go in a week or so.