Need some advice on JAA/EASA IR!
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Need some advice on JAA/EASA IR!
I'm not exactly sure if "private flying" or "professional training" is the appropriate forum since this is about "professional training for private flying"... If I'm wrong here my apologies!
Returning to Europe in about 2 month I feel like it is time to step up. After roughly 200hrs buzzing around VFR/NVFR I want to tackle the (ME) IR for better safety, fun and reliability.
However when it comes to the ground school part I'm a bit lost. Research mostly brings up the advise to do the full ATPL theory because the IR theory is just a bit less (Tho' 5 exams less sounds actually quite a bit to me!). Personally I don't have any intention to ever fly commercially for an airline. I certainly wouldn't mind holding a CPL one day just for the sake of having it but no rush... (fulfil childhood dream - check
)
Now back to topic:
I know there is no fast way to an JAA/EASA IR but what is the "quickest"? It definitely needs to be a distance learning course since job/uni don't allow full time attendance. If I'd go with one of the big providers like Bristol or CATS GS do I have to sit the exams in the UK or am I free to attend them in Germany as well (where I am based...)? How long did it take you to sit all exams? What's the theory to go for? Just the IR or is the difference in study time really that marginal compared with a CPL or even full ATPL?
Much appreciated if some JAA IR (private) pilot's would share their experience with me!
cheers
maehhh
Returning to Europe in about 2 month I feel like it is time to step up. After roughly 200hrs buzzing around VFR/NVFR I want to tackle the (ME) IR for better safety, fun and reliability.
However when it comes to the ground school part I'm a bit lost. Research mostly brings up the advise to do the full ATPL theory because the IR theory is just a bit less (Tho' 5 exams less sounds actually quite a bit to me!). Personally I don't have any intention to ever fly commercially for an airline. I certainly wouldn't mind holding a CPL one day just for the sake of having it but no rush... (fulfil childhood dream - check
)Now back to topic:
I know there is no fast way to an JAA/EASA IR but what is the "quickest"? It definitely needs to be a distance learning course since job/uni don't allow full time attendance. If I'd go with one of the big providers like Bristol or CATS GS do I have to sit the exams in the UK or am I free to attend them in Germany as well (where I am based...)? How long did it take you to sit all exams? What's the theory to go for? Just the IR or is the difference in study time really that marginal compared with a CPL or even full ATPL?
Much appreciated if some JAA IR (private) pilot's would share their experience with me!
cheers
maehhh
Last edited by maehhh; 15th May 2012 at 03:47.
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I have some notes here on the FAA to JAA conversion which I did in 2011. They go over the various options.
The quickest possible way is likely to be:
1. Sign up with CATS and then sit all 7 exams in one go (over 2 days) at Gatwick.
2. Go to Spain or Greece and fly 2x a day.
The 7 UK CAA IR exams are perhaps 40% of the 14 ATPL exams.
The quickest possible way is likely to be:
1. Sign up with CATS and then sit all 7 exams in one go (over 2 days) at Gatwick.
2. Go to Spain or Greece and fly 2x a day.
The 7 UK CAA IR exams are perhaps 40% of the 14 ATPL exams.
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The 7 UK CAA IR exams are perhaps 40% of the 14 ATPL exams.
I would suggest doing an FAA IR first then converting as Peter said in Spain or Greece. It is good to have both IR's anyway. 15 hour conversion with 5 on the actual aircraft minimum plus test.
Maybe master the Arrow first though, especially if you want to do this on twin.
Last edited by M-ONGO; 15th May 2012 at 08:40.
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Not sure I agree re 40% of the CPL.
I haven't done the JAA CPL but have seen the whole ATPL material. My 40% was a guess based on the fact that the original JAA IR 7-exam QB was just 7 of the 14 ATPL exams, so perhaps "50%" at that point, and only in the UK did the CAA strip down the IR QB a bit further, to remove stuff specific to jet ops.
There are some indications that they also stripped out stuff specific to piston performance calcs, though the FTO I did it at had clearly thought otherwise...
The amount of garbage in the IR QB is truly vast.
I am not sure I agree re the FAA - JAA IR conversion being a good route - unless (as I say in my writeup) your time is worth little and you are happy to go through a lot of hassle.
The FAA IR is not easy. The checkride is potentially a bl00dy lot harder than the UK CAA one. It requires excellent skills and currency, which you will have because you will be living out there and flying 2x a day.
If you want to fly bizjets in general terms then both IRs are desirable, of course. CPL/IRs
I haven't done the JAA CPL but have seen the whole ATPL material. My 40% was a guess based on the fact that the original JAA IR 7-exam QB was just 7 of the 14 ATPL exams, so perhaps "50%" at that point, and only in the UK did the CAA strip down the IR QB a bit further, to remove stuff specific to jet ops.
There are some indications that they also stripped out stuff specific to piston performance calcs, though the FTO I did it at had clearly thought otherwise...
The amount of garbage in the IR QB is truly vast.
I am not sure I agree re the FAA - JAA IR conversion being a good route - unless (as I say in my writeup) your time is worth little and you are happy to go through a lot of hassle.
The FAA IR is not easy. The checkride is potentially a bl00dy lot harder than the UK CAA one. It requires excellent skills and currency, which you will have because you will be living out there and flying 2x a day.
If you want to fly bizjets in general terms then both IRs are desirable, of course. CPL/IRs
Last edited by peterh337; 15th May 2012 at 09:00.
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The FAA - JAA IR route worked well for me. No complaints here. I fly both FAA and EASA registered aircraft.
I did not state anywhere that it was easy.
The subject is 23 years old, presently flying in Australia I believe but a native to Germany, so his time is probably his own anyway. I'd head to the USA. This is how many of my students (also an instructor) gained a JAA IR.
I did not state anywhere that it was easy.
The subject is 23 years old, presently flying in Australia I believe but a native to Germany, so his time is probably his own anyway. I'd head to the USA. This is how many of my students (also an instructor) gained a JAA IR.
I would suggest you wait until the EASA NPA on IMC flying is finally resolved. The chances are that there will be a revised examination that replaces the existing exams and makes things much more achievable. I am not sure what the time scale is.
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Probably 2014-2015 for the "CBM IR" - if there are no major issues.
The thing to consider is the incremental work involved in doing it now and acquiring the capability now, versus waiting for say 2 years (by which time you will definitely be 2 years closer to losing your medical ) and then you may get caught by something else...
I've heard this story since I started flying 12 years ago. A more accessible IR has always been just around the corner. It's true that this one looks more likely but one never knows...
The much reduced CBM IR training requirements are to a large degree an illusion because almost nobody will meet the standard for the IRT in much fewer hours than say 40-50. There is a potential cost saving by being able to use a freelance instructor for all but the 10 hours, however. But we've done this to death here already
The thing to consider is the incremental work involved in doing it now and acquiring the capability now, versus waiting for say 2 years (by which time you will definitely be 2 years closer to losing your medical
) and then you may get caught by something else...I've heard this story since I started flying 12 years ago. A more accessible IR has always been just around the corner. It's true that this one looks more likely but one never knows...
The much reduced CBM IR training requirements are to a large degree an illusion because almost nobody will meet the standard for the IRT in much fewer hours than say 40-50. There is a potential cost saving by being able to use a freelance instructor for all but the 10 hours, however. But we've done this to death here already
Last edited by peterh337; 15th May 2012 at 13:34.
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First of all thanks for all your advice so far!
Peter, I had a quick look at your link and it appears to me as a very helpful source of information, thanks for that. I'll spent more time with it within the next days and do some more research!
The FAA ---> JAA way seems in fact interesting however it sounds indeed time consuming and full of nice little problems showing up along the way... Spent a lot of time lately to convert my JAA licence/ratings to their Australian equivalents and I'm really sick of this
However I don't want to rule it out, if that's the way to go paperwork shall not stop me, peter/M-ONGO how long took the whole procedure for you?
And how much time would you guys estimate for a JAA IR without the FAA detour?
However the subject is currently working 2 jobs while finishing his engineering degree and as it is with us young boys we want everything and we want it right now! But seriously it appears that my non-aviation workload decreases a bit in the next couple of month so this would be a good chance to get the IR started.
It is tempting but the latter is the reason why I don't intend to wait for it...
Peter, I had a quick look at your link and it appears to me as a very helpful source of information, thanks for that. I'll spent more time with it within the next days and do some more research!
The FAA ---> JAA way seems in fact interesting however it sounds indeed time consuming and full of nice little problems showing up along the way... Spent a lot of time lately to convert my JAA licence/ratings to their Australian equivalents and I'm really sick of this
However I don't want to rule it out, if that's the way to go paperwork shall not stop me, peter/M-ONGO how long took the whole procedure for you?
And how much time would you guys estimate for a JAA IR without the FAA detour?
The subject is 23 years old, presently flying in Australia I believe but a native to Germany, so his time is probably his own anyway.
However the subject is currently working 2 jobs while finishing his engineering degree and as it is with us young boys we want everything and we want it right now! But seriously it appears that my non-aviation workload decreases a bit in the next couple of month so this would be a good chance to get the IR started.
I would suggest you wait until the EASA NPA on IMC flying is finally resolved. The chances are that there will be a revised examination that replaces the existing exams and makes things much more achievable. I am not sure what the time scale is.
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My FAA IR writeup from 2005/2006 is here
It takes a while... FAA PPL, FAA IR, medical, 2 exams, training, 2 checkrides, living in the USA for a few weeks (possible but very messy in Europe). As I said, OK if your time is worth little.
It is immensely frustrating that the JAA IR bar has been set so high and has so many arbitrary steps which are no more than purely in-your-face business creation e.g. the 50hrs all done at an FTO, with no credit for previous training (other than another ICAO IR) but I can't see the conversion route being efficient unless you do want 2 sets of papers.
If OTOH you are mobile and want to keep the options open, then get both
It takes a while... FAA PPL, FAA IR, medical, 2 exams, training, 2 checkrides, living in the USA for a few weeks (possible but very messy in Europe). As I said, OK if your time is worth little.
It is immensely frustrating that the JAA IR bar has been set so high and has so many arbitrary steps which are no more than purely in-your-face business creation e.g. the 50hrs all done at an FTO, with no credit for previous training (other than another ICAO IR) but I can't see the conversion route being efficient unless you do want 2 sets of papers.
If OTOH you are mobile and want to keep the options open, then get both
