Scottish Info Coverage
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Was at 3500 between Larne (Northern Ireland) and Loch Ryan on Saturday - Aldergrove App wanted us to contact Scottish on the way across but we weren't able to although were able to get a basic service from Aldergrove right the way across. Gave up and contacted Prestwick Approach / Radar when we hit land instead.
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Liam...
Not easy to do really because there are so many variables that seem at times to affect range of signal.... aircraft radio type (some are affected when using Scottish Info on 119.875 if also you also have GPS on!!...position of aerial on the aircraft and direction of flight of aircraft in relation to the position of the TX/RX site. Only today I spoke to an aircraft at 1500ft over Oban town where as the other day I could not make contact with a Jodel at 2000ft in the same position!
GASAX.....
Without giving the exact locations one is on the NE Moray coast, another on high ground north of Dundee and the other on top of high ground in the Galloway hills.
Maorigh
Scottish info on that frequency use a TX/RX site on Tiree which gives better coverage once west of Oban.
What I intend to do though is to and try create and internet page that gives various pieces of information for GA aircraft operating VFR over Scotland. This will give the different Scottish Information sectors and the frequencies that are available.....hopefully I will give area's of known poor reception and any other usefull information that you guys flying over Scotland may need?? I will then create a link to this page through the "Fly On Track" web site.
As said above, some kind of estimated coverage map, official or unoffical would be useful as a guide
GASAX.....
Perhaps if FBW could give us the location of the repeater stations we could all make educated guesses about likely coverage?
Maorigh
No problem on 127.275 from off Tobermory to E of Lochinver.
What I intend to do though is to and try create and internet page that gives various pieces of information for GA aircraft operating VFR over Scotland. This will give the different Scottish Information sectors and the frequencies that are available.....hopefully I will give area's of known poor reception and any other usefull information that you guys flying over Scotland may need?? I will then create a link to this page through the "Fly On Track" web site.
Last edited by fisbangwollop; 23rd May 2012 at 05:12.
My Mode S was being interrogated, at least some of the time, while I had trouble communicating on 119.875. I was given 7004. Would Scottish see my reg? Or do the information guys have a screen?
Would the info be recorded? (If I disappeared incommunicado) PS No GPS use.
Would the info be recorded? (If I disappeared incommunicado) PS No GPS use.
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I'm sure someone will correct me, but being interrogated by a TCAS unit could cause this, and if the signal is weak (or trying to go through a mountain), it doesn't mean that your interrogation response was being received. I'm sure there are also some non-interlinked SSR stations around also (military?) which could interrogate your transponder.
I haven't visited fisbangwollop and his colleagues yet (despite flying from Prestwick) but I understand that although they do have visibility of a radar screen, it is as an advisory only - they normally use a map, some pens and a ruler.
I haven't visited fisbangwollop and his colleagues yet (despite flying from Prestwick) but I understand that although they do have visibility of a radar screen, it is as an advisory only - they normally use a map, some pens and a ruler.
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I'm sure FBW said he has access to an 'airspace infringement tool' - which is the code for a radar feed which is not suposed to be used for traffic separation!
As to Mode S - I see Prestwick went out to tender at the beginning of this year to buy a Mode S radar, so eventually I suppose FBW will maybe even hang up his ruler and string....
As to Mode S - I see Prestwick went out to tender at the beginning of this year to buy a Mode S radar, so eventually I suppose FBW will maybe even hang up his ruler and string....
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Are you talking about Prestwick Airport or "Scottish and Oceanic Area Control Centre"? Prestwick airport currently uses an SSR feed from elsewhere which is visible on radar screens - I don't know about a tender (but then - I'm just a PPL student who has done a tower visit 
).
).
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GASAX....
Prestwick Airport has nothing to do what so ever with where I am based at the Scottish Area Control Centre whom are part of NATS....check out the following link if you want more info and watch the "Introduction to NATS video"..........as for Scottish Information operating on 119.875 this is a NON RADAR Service....if you speak to Scottish Information on 127.275 this sector does use radar and at times traffic and height permitting you may be offered a radar service.In the mean time I will continue to use my ruler, piece of string and 1:500:000 aeronautical chart...
NATS | A global leader in air traffic control and airport performance
I see Prestwick went out to tender at the beginning of this year to buy a Mode S radar, so eventually I suppose FBW will maybe even hang up his ruler and string....
NATS | A global leader in air traffic control and airport performance
Last edited by fisbangwollop; 23rd May 2012 at 15:52.
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I used to make educated guesses based on this:
UK Airband Transmitter Sites & Frequencies
Don't know how accurate or up to date it is though.
UK Airband Transmitter Sites & Frequencies
Don't know how accurate or up to date it is though.
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Save you going through the site, it says for 119.875
Windy Head (Aberdeen)
Craigowl hill (Dundee)
Lowther Hill (Dumfries).
Listed as Scottish Control rather than information.
Windy Head (Aberdeen)
Craigowl hill (Dundee)
Lowther Hill (Dumfries).
Listed as Scottish Control rather than information.
Last edited by riverrock83; 23rd May 2012 at 18:09.
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Sorry to resurrect this thread, but used SI for the second time ever today and true to form they were great and the service was first rate. A couple of exchanges even gave me a chuckle. Checked in with them over Loch Lomond on my way back from Oban to Forfar and after initial contact the controller asked me to restate my equipment type to which I replied again “M7” there was a slight delay then she advised another aircraft that a “M7” was nearby, he acknowledged this but added that he would need to Google what a M7 was, to which the controller replied that is exactly what she had just done!
Further along I got a traffic advisory, I responded that “I did not have a visual but did have them on the screen at my 5 o’clock and 3 miles”. Now I have been dying to say this ever since I bought my handy dandy used PCAS of ebay and I finally got the chance today (it’s the small things in life that make my sad old arse happy !!)
Keep up the great work SI
Further along I got a traffic advisory, I responded that “I did not have a visual but did have them on the screen at my 5 o’clock and 3 miles”. Now I have been dying to say this ever since I bought my handy dandy used PCAS of ebay and I finally got the chance today (it’s the small things in life that make my sad old arse happy !!)
Keep up the great work SI
Last edited by piperboy84; 25th Jun 2012 at 21:48.
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Please don't tell people that you have anything on anyform of TCAS/collision avoidance tool.
In the grand scale of things it means nothing to either controllers or other pilots. Its only when you can see the traffic that the controller can deem you are self seperating and don't require updates. So yes use it so you know which sector it shoud be in for trying pick it up. But until you have it with the mark one eyeball nobody can presume that you really do have the traffic.
In the grand scale of things it means nothing to either controllers or other pilots. Its only when you can see the traffic that the controller can deem you are self seperating and don't require updates. So yes use it so you know which sector it shoud be in for trying pick it up. But until you have it with the mark one eyeball nobody can presume that you really do have the traffic.
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MJ - surely by saying what PB said, he made it clear he didn't have the other aircraft in sight (he wouldn't if it was at 5 o'clock) but the other aircraft would then know roughly which direction to look.
Since they were talking to Scottish Info they will both have been in class G so were doing their own separation anyway - so the lovely lady at Prestwick will ignore his comment as you say.
However we all know that the Mk1 Eyeball is much more effective when given an idea where to point it, and by reporting as he did, this will have aided the other aircraft's primary collision avoidance system in finding a potential conflict.
Since they were talking to Scottish Info they will both have been in class G so were doing their own separation anyway - so the lovely lady at Prestwick will ignore his comment as you say.
However we all know that the Mk1 Eyeball is much more effective when given an idea where to point it, and by reporting as he did, this will have aided the other aircraft's primary collision avoidance system in finding a potential conflict.
Last edited by riverrock83; 26th Jun 2012 at 09:52.
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MJ,
For sure nothing replaces a visual, and i was somewhat skeptical about the whole TCAS concept as i initially thought it may dilute my visual scans or make me more reliant on the machine as opposed to looking. However in practice its quite the opposite, it really is a net addition to the visual scan and helps target/focus the scan, another thing it is really got for is military jets, not for avoiding them as the closing rate is so quick but merely as a heads up they are coming and so it does not scare the **** out of me when they swoosh past (which happens a lot around my home strip) and they are easily identifiable as military on the screen due to the closing rate.
Since i started using it ( if i remember correctly i paid about £400 for it) there has been many times when i have been cruising along and it alerts me to traffic in the area i was just looking at, upon refocusing i have been able to pick them out.
The SO controller may have ignored the comment but the other traffic immediately acknowledged my call via the controller which gave me a level of comfort.
In the particular instance i mentioned the TCAS was really helpful as i was level at 1200 there was a scattered layer between 1700 to 2000 and the other traffic was showing at approximately 2300 to 2600 so a visual may not have been possible.
For sure nothing replaces a visual, and i was somewhat skeptical about the whole TCAS concept as i initially thought it may dilute my visual scans or make me more reliant on the machine as opposed to looking. However in practice its quite the opposite, it really is a net addition to the visual scan and helps target/focus the scan, another thing it is really got for is military jets, not for avoiding them as the closing rate is so quick but merely as a heads up they are coming and so it does not scare the **** out of me when they swoosh past (which happens a lot around my home strip) and they are easily identifiable as military on the screen due to the closing rate.
Since i started using it ( if i remember correctly i paid about £400 for it) there has been many times when i have been cruising along and it alerts me to traffic in the area i was just looking at, upon refocusing i have been able to pick them out.
The SO controller may have ignored the comment but the other traffic immediately acknowledged my call via the controller which gave me a level of comfort.
In the particular instance i mentioned the TCAS was really helpful as i was level at 1200 there was a scattered layer between 1700 to 2000 and the other traffic was showing at approximately 2300 to 2600 so a visual may not have been possible.
Last edited by piperboy84; 26th Jun 2012 at 10:23.
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I work with TCAS every day. It is agreat tool for vertical speration but is ****e at lateral.
You may feel that you have an additional level of comfort but in real life you are just in the same situation as you were with out it. Until you can see it you arn't seperated.
Your RT call saying you have it is meaningless and clutters up the RT.
The only way you can assure seperation is by getting a level seperation.
I suggest you read up a bit more on the limitations of TCAS and what its actually designed to do. It is not an airborne radar type display.
You may feel that you have an additional level of comfort but in real life you are just in the same situation as you were with out it. Until you can see it you arn't seperated.
Your RT call saying you have it is meaningless and clutters up the RT.
The only way you can assure seperation is by getting a level seperation.
I suggest you read up a bit more on the limitations of TCAS and what its actually designed to do. It is not an airborne radar type display.
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I work with TCAS every day. It is agreat tool for vertical speration but is ****e at lateral
I suggest you read up a bit more on the limitations of TCAS and what its actually designed to do
In the particular instance i mentioned the TCAS was really helpful as i was level at 1200 there was a scattered layer between 1700 to 2000 and the other traffic was showing at approximately 2300 to 2600 so a visual may not have been possible.
In answer to your question, yes, it's ten fold better than a PCAS system. It's a great SA tool. Rest assured, we still maintain lookouts. A controller won't let us (correctly so) maintain our own separation based on it. Visual is visual in a non radar environment, end of.
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Just the way it works and the way the signal is processed.
In the tech forums on here they have had folk that designed the thing talking about it and why there is no 3D seperation using it.
Its all to do with pulse length, digital radar signal, doppler shift and other such stuff.
Traffic collision avoidance system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pretty good write up to be honest and also how I understand the state of play to be.
In the tech forums on here they have had folk that designed the thing talking about it and why there is no 3D seperation using it.
Its all to do with pulse length, digital radar signal, doppler shift and other such stuff.
Traffic collision avoidance system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pretty good write up to be honest and also how I understand the state of play to be.
Last edited by mad_jock; 26th Jun 2012 at 20:24.