Nav planning by email...

[Flylogical]

Thought you might find this app helpful. Saved me the other day on an SEP revalidation where I had to plan a navex at zero notice (not just a GH sortie as I had wrongly anticipated). CAA Examiner said to me when I arrived at airfield, "nip next door and plan your navex, your route is..."

Anyway, after a frazzled 10 mins with dynosauric whizz wheel (borrowed from local flying club) a quick trip to the toilets with my mobile phone, I was able to check my hand-calculated nav and wind corrections via a detailed PLOG sent by email.

Click here ( flylogical: Flight nav planning by email ) for more info (this is a non-commercial, free resource, hope you find it useful)

[chipmeisterc]

It saved you and you have exactly the same user name as the app in question, it could almost have been written for you...or wait a minute..by you?

If you did write it I hope there is a big disclaimer somewhere that says pilots should not rely on this data? If not I am very interested how you can be sure that winds/route etc are robust enough to rely on?

[Genghis the Engineer]

You need to go and get some flight instruction then if you can't do a simple task like that without computer assistance.

I'd be within my rights to ban you from Pprune for advertising quite so blatantly Flylogic. I won't, because it's something free that you are advertising - but please mind yourself. Other mods are much less good natured than I am, and you've caught me on a good day.

G

[Obi_Wan]

Yes, to be fair that is blatant.
As G the E said, it's a fairly simple task you're being asked to perform too.

[Flylogical]

chipmeisterc

On the source of wind and met data, I use the US Gov NOAA source since (i) it is provided free of charge for non-commercial purposes; (ii) they provide a straightforward programming API for anyone to consume the data service. In terms of how "official" the data is, it's hard to say. The METARs and TAFs are numerically identical to what you find anywhere else, though the data say for UK might be delayed for some minutes (or worst case, an hour or so depending on a given day) compared with the UK met Office sources, but that's the only difference I've found. For winds aloft, I again use NOAA (specifically their global GFS forecasts). Again, it's hard to comment on how "official" this source is. However, given that these are forecasts, a margin of error is expected and acceptable. Interestingly, if you happen to check out the SkyDemon forum today, you will find an active thread relating to this very point. Someone is reporting that SkyDemon and Jeppesen give quite different values for winds for same position at same day/time. It's not clear what sources they use.

On disclaimers, yes I have the usual banner. Interestingly, even commercial software seems to carry the same sort of banner. The only one I've found that doesn't is JeppView: they warn about using out-of-date plates, but not about the overall use of their tool as long as you apply latest updates. All others I've seen, however, warn about the use of their tool fundamentally.

By the way, my main point wasn't about remembering how to use the met data per se, it was rather about the temperature/pressure corrections etc on the slide-rule side of the wizzy wheel. I'd frankly forgotten how to use that. Haven't used it since my PPL training over 30 years ago. I don't know any pilots who've used a wizzy wheel to calculate TAS since they last passed a test that needed it...

[Flylogical]

Genghis

I'm fortunate I got you on a good day ! Apologies if I caused any upset, not the intention.

On the wizzy wheel calcs, as I said to chipmeisterc, my point was pertaining to the reverse-side of the wizzy wheel. I hadn't used that for decades (calculating temperature corrections for use in IAS to TAS etc). Of course, not difficult in principle, but awkward in practice if you've simply forgotten how to use that arcane device (such as I had, not expecting to have to use it again).

Seriously, do you know of any private pilot uses the wizzy wheel to make these corrections every time they plan a VFR flight ? Or even use a wizzy wheel at all ? I can tell you that I *never* use that device. I don't even carry one on-board. I always use software for those tasks. If you use your wizzy wheel for temperature corrections, I am very impressed. I guess it goes to prove that there are still some people out there who know how to use a slide rule...I'ts similar to the point about navigation itself. I don't know of any private pilot who doesn't use GPS "and follow the pink line" as their primary nav technique instead of map and compass, even though they are meant use map and compass as primary, and GPS as backup, everyone does the opposite as far as I can tell...If you do the proper map and compass way as primary, again, I must say I would be impressed: respect.

[Flylogical]

Obi Wan

As I said to Genghis, I would be impressed with anyone who can use the reverse side of their wizzy wheel on the fly without any practice or refresher. I don't think it is simple in practice (even if simple in principle): I think it is awkward, especially after decades of using software for those tasks. Hence it was very helpful for me to check my results using software, since apart from the flying component, I was being "judged on accuracy of planning" etc...

I should have explained that in my earlier post...

[madlandrover]

As an Examining point, there's nothing wrong with using software for calculations - don't assume that you "have" to use the CRP because it's a test. You will have already proved proficiency in this during the written exams. Most Examiners are pretty practical about how you derive the results, the important thing is that they're correct! My most recent IR student spent an entertaining half hour discussing iPad apps for flight planning & how to use them safely with the CAA Staff FE who came to conduct his test. Who had the old version of some of the apps

[Genghis the Engineer]

Agreed, whilst I do stay current on how to use a flight computer, mostly I just use a calculator. Or some of the numerous rules of thumb that do the rounds.

It's the admission of not having a clue how to do it, so it apparently was necessary to sneak into the loos to "phone a friend", that suggested to me that the OP could do with some remedial instruction.

G

[Flylogical]

Genghis

I wrote the software that does all the calculations on the principle that you should never do twice what you can train a computer to do once. It was the mechanical wizzy wheel that I had forgotten how to use 30 years on, not the principles behind the calcs. If you take a look at my web app, you'll see it is comprehensive and thorough. The point of my post was simply to mention that with nothing more than access to email, you can check all your manual calculations and be sure of their accuracy and reliability. That was my only point. The embellishment about the toilets was a joke (i.e., didn't literally happen). I did however check my calcs by email in the planning room (not the toilets). I can recommend that you try out the app. You may find you can then give up on maintaining currency on the wizzy wheel. Even in expert hands, using the wizzy wheel is many times slower than the app. If you consider also the time it takes to manually extrapolate the wind and weather charts (in order to use the wizzy wheel), then unless you have plenty of time, there really is little point in doing it manually. A final point about using the email app (with command line arguments to specify the route etc) rather than a software graphical map interface to enter the route, is that the email approach is generally much faster (after a little practice). The central purpose of writing the app was to enable me to be efficient (saving time) yet still perform proper pre-flight planning with the minimum of fuss, and without being pinned to a specific device or software system (just email!). A year or so ago I posted it up on a web-server, free for anyone to use. So, please feel free to give it a go...or don't, no matter....just thought it may be useful/of-interest/etc to the private pilot forum...since in my observation, it's not uncommon to see (qualified) pilots taking off with little or no preparation...just the students seem to plan properly. Not having the software/device/kit readily to hand may be the mitigating factor in some instances, but most people at least have a phone capable of email these days...

[Genghis the Engineer]

it's not uncommon to see (qualified) pilots taking off with little or no preparation...just the students seem to plan properly.

This sadly is very true, and why I actually think what you're doing is potentially quite useful.

But, I do also think that professionalism includes staying current on all the tools available to you - then you can pick the one most sensible at any given time. More than once in my life, that's been a whizz wheel, or mental arithmetic.

G

[Flylogical]

Madlandrover

Yes, there was actually no problem from the Examiner when I checked my calcs via email/software/app (see my response to Genghis, the "toilet" bit was meant as a joke, I'm afraid that didn't come across). I was however "caught short", since I didn't anticipate being asked to plan a navex (that much was true in my apocryphal tale). Hence I didn't have any of my usual kit (iPad/AirNavPro/SkyDemon) with me on the day...hence the email app was very valuable. That's it.

ps I've got two Landrover Defenders. Given your name, I guess you have some ?

[CharlieDeltaUK]

...is generally much faster (after a little practice)...

The thing is, so is the whiz wheel. By the time you finish PPL, it's second nature and very quick. It's also very visual (you can see the vectors). I'm all for using tech where it makes life easier, but sometimes it's just easier doing things the so-called old fashioned way. And it's somehow quite satisfying.

With so many flying apps, I'm surprised there's room in the market for another. If you have email access, you probably have acces to SkyDemon. Thats tough competition.

[Flylogical]

CharlieDeltaUK

I agree that the wind vector side of the wheel is fine and intuitive. It's the circular slide-rule (reverse side) of the wheel that I find obtuse and unmemorable.

I'm not "in the market" against other apps in the sense that l'm not engaged in any commercial venture. I built my email-based app ostensibly for my own use, a couple of years ago, and keep tweaking it here and there. You mentioned SkyDemon -- it wasn't available on generic mobile devices until the recent iPad release, which I have. I also have a few other apps (AirNavPro on iPad and MemoryMap on both the iPad and Android). They all have pros and cons in my view. Horses for courses. I wouldn't choose one over the other since no one app does all that I like/need. I personally find my email (and GoogleMap) app very useful specific tasks, and I use it alongside the other tools. Just thought l'd share it in case others find it useful alongside whatever other kit they have. That's all !

[madlandrover]

1 x S2A LWB. Personally, I wouldn't have minded if you'd done rule of thumb calcs based on forecast wind & track, as long as you made them work in flight - the stated requirement is for a short nav leg at the FE's discretion. I tend to use common sense here, albeit it is good if people are conversant with a few different methods!

[peterh337]

On a quick look, this is quite a cunning thing, although it would be more useful if one could get tafs and metars and a notam narrow route briefing by email, by specifying airport codes and a route in say the subject header of a blank email.

"Modern" pilots navigate with GPS (backed up by VOR/DME) and don't need a wind corrected plog because one is getting continuous track guidance. I have not done a w/c plog (except when required to for tests) since I got my PPL in 2001.

I see we are again getting into the "does not use the circular slide rule" = "unprepared pilot" territory which IME is a long way from what really happens out there. There are indeed pilots who take off without any preparation but that's because that's the way they are, not because they don't know how to do it. Teaching them some methodology isn't going to make them do it.

[italianjon]

It looks like a good tool and a useful one; but an addition to the toolbox of flying...

On the topic of Whizz Wheel and Prepared Pilot or Not... It's entirely up to the individual. If you want to use a GPS as primary then go for it. I don't, I use Map+Compass, but that's only because there is something satisfying about looking out of the window and seeing a city or feature exactly where I planned it to be and bang on the timing. I just don't get the same feeling out of a GPS where you follow a line like the big boys... they get their kicks out of better coffee and the stewardesses I use gizzmos when I need to, but flying is a hobby and I think it should be enjoyable, challenging and satisfying..

Probably thread creep, and GtE will probably slap me for that, but I am engaged in a debate with a friend of mine at the moment. He has access to a bells and whistles glass cockpit Cirrus, and won't get off the ground unless it is CAVOK and everything is working including data sync between iPad and GPS. I'm flying a 1960's PA28 with steam instruments... he thinks I am now unsafe because I am using out of date avionics... Difference is I can go flying on my own because I love the Map + Compass schenanigans... he will only go flying with an attractive bird next to him who he is trying to impress....

[Flylogical]

Peterh337:

On your comment "although it would be more useful if one could get tafs and metars and a notam narrow route briefing by email, by specifying airport codes and a route in say the subject header of a blank email.
"

...actually you can get the MET in precisely that manner (but not NOTAMS as yet, see below). There is a little-sibling MET-only version of the app. Simply send an email to [email protected] (instead of [email protected]) with the ICAO codes in the subject-line separated by spaces. Example:

To: [email protected]
From: <your email address registered with Flylogical>
Subject: EGNS EGNH EGPK

In a few seconds of sending, you will get an email response with a PDF email attachment containing the latest TAFs and METARS for your requested stations list. Also, your station ICAO codes are 'remembered'. So, the next time, you can simply send a completely blank message (i.e., no subject-line or body content) to [email protected] and it will respond with the latest wx for the previously-stated station list. Only if you send a different list via the subject-line, will the response change accordingly. I use this all the time. I get it to memorise my given list in a first email of the day (containing stations along my desired route). Then, I simply send blank emails from my phone for latest MET briefs before flight. As long as your phone can decipher email attached PDF, all works fine. iPads, iPhones, and Android phones (with downloaded PDF reader, the native pdf viewer is poor) work fine in this regard.

On NOTAMs, they are not yet included in the app. Reason: unlike with MET (provided free of charge for non-commercial users via US Gov NOAA web-services) I've not yet been able to find a reliable digital source of global NOTAMs that can be sensibly parsed in software. It is available for the UK, but not globally and systematically. As soon as that global resource becomes available for free, I will readily include it. It is quite frustrating since the data is fundamentally available free of charge from the various national authorities, but not in a usable format from a software development perspective. Yes, one can pay for such a global data feed/service (e.g., via commercial data aggregators etc), but it really ought to be free (like basic MET data) since the underlying data is free. I routinely check up on the availability of a decent free global NOTAM data service. Not yet there yet, I'm afraid....but I'll keep looking. If anyone knows of such, please let me know and I'll build it in (for free).

On the subject of wind-correction, I would agree that as long as the GPS keeps working, then "following the pink line" will keep you on-track, so need to plan for the wind in the context of in-flight navigation. However, proper planning for wind is still important from a fuel endurance point of view. I've written a detailed article on this if interested. Basically, if you are flying an underpowered aircraft with low fuel state (or small tank capacity), then if you don't properly plan for wind, you could come unstuck (run out of fuel) !

[peterh337]

I skimmed your article. You are obviously a very clever bloke. Great notes on wind always being a negative on a round trip

I will look at the emailed wx. That's a useful add-on to one's toolbox especially when abroad and roaming (which is when things tend to go wrong ).

Probably thread creep, and GtE will probably slap me for that, but I am engaged in a debate with a friend of mine at the moment. He has access to a bells and whistles glass cockpit Cirrus, and won't get off the ground unless it is CAVOK and everything is working including data sync between iPad and GPS. I'm flying a 1960's PA28 with steam instruments... he thinks I am now unsafe because I am using out of date avionics... Difference is I can go flying on my own because I love the Map + Compass schenanigans...

He is just silly. Has he explained why you are supposedly unsafe?

I must admit that when I used to rent out my TB20 (years ago) I would not let anybody fly it unless they were competent with and used radio nav. My reason was that using "traditional" nav it is easy to get into a pickle and while the worst-case in the UK is the proverbial interview at the CAA without tea and biscuits (unless you are cocky and don't grovel in which case they will prosecute, and they seemingly will prosecute a major-visibility event like an air show), abroad it can be worse and the theoretical penalties in e.g. France are ~ 10k euros or aircraft confiscation. But then it was my bouncy castle and all that...

I would go slightly wider eyed if somebody wanted to go from UK to say Crete using DR but if they are competent and stick to good vis wx etc etc there is no problem with it.

he will only go flying with an attractive bird next to him who he is trying to impress....

Well, he is 100% right to take birds out only in perfect wx

[italianjon]

He is just silly. Has he explained why you are supposedly unsafe?

Apparently too easy to bust controlled airspace here in Europe and mix with the heavy metal without a precise GPS position and line to follow. (He's from over the pond)...
I agree that I would not go on a bimble for more than an hour on DI alone. I do use VOR/DME; NDBs etc, but I plan and hand fly the lot, not leave it all to electronics, software and autopilot. I have used, in the past the Skydemon Demo, to plan a route and found it quite good. If it did weight and balance I would buy a copy, as there still is enough manual stuff to keep it interesting. I would however like to keep the old hand calcs fresh, because I get some enjoyment out of the whole flight planning process and then flying it, but it is just my opinion.

Well, he is 100% right to take birds out only in perfect wx

Can't fully agree here, my vote would be for a small amount of turbulence... or I guess you could add a new meaning to Pilot Induced Oscillations