Pilot training in the UK
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Further suggestions
Hi bober02,
Some of the clubs suggested to you above, while no doubt very good in terms of facilities and training standards, would be a ridiculous choice in terms of travelling time and transport cost. I feel you should reckon on a maximum of 90 minutes travelling time - tops.
Bearing in mind where you are based, I suggest you take a look at the clubs at Redhill, Lashenden/Headcorn and Biggin Hill. Of these, my own preference would be the Tiger Club at Lashenden/Headcorn; long established and with a good name, but there are good clubs at all three locations.
Someone has mentioned three axis microlight flying. I would strongly concur with this suggestion. The TAM aircraft are generally much more modern than Group A aircraft, cheaper to operate, more capable, nicer to fly and often much more roomy inside. The average club Group A aircraft was built in the eighties (or earlier), and has an engine dating back to the thirties.
Also, look out for clubs operating the new VLAs (very light aircraft). These too are much more modern than the average Group A spamcan and have all the advantages of the TAMs mentioned above, cost no more than a Group A to hire, and you can get a full PPL/NPPL on them.
Good luck.
Regards,
BP.
Some of the clubs suggested to you above, while no doubt very good in terms of facilities and training standards, would be a ridiculous choice in terms of travelling time and transport cost. I feel you should reckon on a maximum of 90 minutes travelling time - tops.
Bearing in mind where you are based, I suggest you take a look at the clubs at Redhill, Lashenden/Headcorn and Biggin Hill. Of these, my own preference would be the Tiger Club at Lashenden/Headcorn; long established and with a good name, but there are good clubs at all three locations.
Someone has mentioned three axis microlight flying. I would strongly concur with this suggestion. The TAM aircraft are generally much more modern than Group A aircraft, cheaper to operate, more capable, nicer to fly and often much more roomy inside. The average club Group A aircraft was built in the eighties (or earlier), and has an engine dating back to the thirties.
Also, look out for clubs operating the new VLAs (very light aircraft). These too are much more modern than the average Group A spamcan and have all the advantages of the TAMs mentioned above, cost no more than a Group A to hire, and you can get a full PPL/NPPL on them.
Good luck.
Regards,
BP.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Glasgow
Age: 40
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is very true that a more intensive course (at the beginning of doing circuits, 40 minutes at a time will be enough to frazzle your brain!) will get you a PPL with less training time, so will cost less money.
However, it is worth thinking about what you are going to do with your PPL after you finish the course. If you then have no money left after the short course and don't fly again for months, you will forget what you have learned as quickly as you were taught it. You will start to forget about that flying dream and you'll quickly start to drift away.
If you plan on being a hobby pilot I suggest that doing a longer course can embed the knowledge more deeply, and you then get used to a certain level of regular expenditure which is easier to keep up once you've qualified. Very different if you have a particular purpose for learning though, such as trying to become professional or perhaps even commuting...
However, it is worth thinking about what you are going to do with your PPL after you finish the course. If you then have no money left after the short course and don't fly again for months, you will forget what you have learned as quickly as you were taught it. You will start to forget about that flying dream and you'll quickly start to drift away.
If you plan on being a hobby pilot I suggest that doing a longer course can embed the knowledge more deeply, and you then get used to a certain level of regular expenditure which is easier to keep up once you've qualified. Very different if you have a particular purpose for learning though, such as trying to become professional or perhaps even commuting...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess, after what I read, I would opt for taking two, 1 hour long lessons per day. That way I could finish all required practical sessions in 6 months roughly, which is fine by me.
@BroomstickPilot: thanks for your pointers about the airfields. Actuallu, luton/cranfield is not that far, neither is Brighton - both roughly 1.5 hour door to door. Considering this, which probably expands the range of possible aeroclubs, any new proposals?
@BroomstickPilot: thanks for your pointers about the airfields. Actuallu, luton/cranfield is not that far, neither is Brighton - both roughly 1.5 hour door to door. Considering this, which probably expands the range of possible aeroclubs, any new proposals?
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nobody should start a PPL unless they can see their way to having the funds to fly meaningfully afterwards.
What "meaningfully" means will differ but it is at least a few grand a year - unless you go the "hang glider" route in which case do you need a PPL?
What "meaningfully" means will differ but it is at least a few grand a year - unless you go the "hang glider" route in which case do you need a PPL?
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Bober,
I can see why you would wish to learn in a consolidated block, but with the weather, aircraft and instructor availability that may not always be possible. In my experience, if this helps, our CFI said that on average, a PPL took 18 months to two years to achieve. I have now been learning basically two years; I have 51 hours and no where near taking my skills test!! There are many reasons for this (not least my thick brain cell
) But i've found that if you start to give yourself timescales, you jsut stress yourself out more. if money is not too much of an issue I would take the flying as it comes, don't get too stressed if its taking "too much time" and most of all enjoy the experience. If you find you get a really good instructor you'll enjoy it even more. I think this is the key, as you will be spending many hours with him/her so need to have get on - even if its only on teh professional level and not on the friendship level (as I now have with my instructor!)
I totally agree with the others about your brain being frazzled after an hour in teh early lessons. Now i'm onto Nav and 1hr 30 airborne frazzles my brain! And as Wierdfish says, an "hour" is not an hour. I guess you should allow about three hours for all the preliminary and de-briefing (and chatting in teh clubhouse ) I now basically spend about six hours at the weekend at the club when flying and if flying in the evening, about four hours. Then theres study time outside the practical flying...Its a time (and life!) consuming hobby as well as an expensive one! Learning to fly is definitely one HUGE commitment in time, brain power and money! ...but the best hobby in teh world 
Hope this helps
GQ
I can see why you would wish to learn in a consolidated block, but with the weather, aircraft and instructor availability that may not always be possible. In my experience, if this helps, our CFI said that on average, a PPL took 18 months to two years to achieve. I have now been learning basically two years; I have 51 hours and no where near taking my skills test!! There are many reasons for this (not least my thick brain cell
) But i've found that if you start to give yourself timescales, you jsut stress yourself out more. if money is not too much of an issue I would take the flying as it comes, don't get too stressed if its taking "too much time" and most of all enjoy the experience. If you find you get a really good instructor you'll enjoy it even more. I think this is the key, as you will be spending many hours with him/her so need to have get on - even if its only on teh professional level and not on the friendship level (as I now have with my instructor!)I totally agree with the others about your brain being frazzled after an hour in teh early lessons. Now i'm onto Nav and 1hr 30 airborne frazzles my brain! And as Wierdfish says, an "hour" is not an hour. I guess you should allow about three hours for all the preliminary and de-briefing (and chatting in teh clubhouse
) I now basically spend about six hours at the weekend at the club when flying and if flying in the evening, about four hours. Then theres study time outside the practical flying...Its a time (and life!) consuming hobby as well as an expensive one! Learning to fly is definitely one HUGE commitment in time, brain power and money! ...but the best hobby in teh world Hope this helps
GQ
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks guys, another useful experiences/comments.
So far I see my potential flying career as the following:
- It will be a hobby and I will definitely continue it after I get the license, as otherwise it is a waste of money
- i will allow half a day to do the 2-hour flying practice session in order to accommodate for talks/checks etc.
- I am planning to do it somewhere close to london so that I could fly regularly without having to commute far
on that last statement, I still need more aeroclubs around London you guys would recommend. Thanks.
So far I see my potential flying career as the following:
- It will be a hobby and I will definitely continue it after I get the license, as otherwise it is a waste of money
- i will allow half a day to do the 2-hour flying practice session in order to accommodate for talks/checks etc.
- I am planning to do it somewhere close to london so that I could fly regularly without having to commute far
on that last statement, I still need more aeroclubs around London you guys would recommend. Thanks.
Of the top of my head, from where you are, use the internet and look at clubs and schools (they are not quite the same thing although both will teach you to fly) at Redhill, Damyns Hall, Stapleford, North Weald, Biggin Hill Panshanger, Elstree, Denham, Helnlow, Blackbushe, Fairoaks, Wycombe and White Waltham.
From my point of view, close to home is important. Flying (and the associated hanging around) is expensive and time consuming enough without long trips to and from the airfield. Also, does the school / club have enough of the right kind of aeroplanes and instructors for you? You are going to spend a lot of time with both so need to be happy with them. I have been lucky and consider most of the instructors I have flown with now to be friends. Some places are very loosely organised, some are tightly organised. It is up to you which suits you best.
Choice of aircraft: will you be happy to fly two seaters, in daytimes and fine weather only? In which case you can use what are loosely called microlights and VLA (either three axis or weight shift, sorry, you will have to research all this!); if you want more seats and / or more flexibility you need conventional light aircraft.
Referring to Grob Queen's post. I learnt to fly at Halton and am still there after nearly five years so I recommend it.
From my point of view, close to home is important. Flying (and the associated hanging around) is expensive and time consuming enough without long trips to and from the airfield. Also, does the school / club have enough of the right kind of aeroplanes and instructors for you? You are going to spend a lot of time with both so need to be happy with them. I have been lucky and consider most of the instructors I have flown with now to be friends. Some places are very loosely organised, some are tightly organised. It is up to you which suits you best.
Choice of aircraft: will you be happy to fly two seaters, in daytimes and fine weather only? In which case you can use what are loosely called microlights and VLA (either three axis or weight shift, sorry, you will have to research all this!); if you want more seats and / or more flexibility you need conventional light aircraft.
Referring to Grob Queen's post. I learnt to fly at Halton and am still there after nearly five years so I recommend it.
Frankly go to the 2-3 schools that are physically nearest to you, ask questions, and have a good look around.
All will be priced similarly, all will use similar aeroplanes.
DO spend time chatting to your potential instructor and pay for a short trial flight with them. If it's near, and the instructor seems somebody you are happy sitting with and learning from, it's probably an appropriate school.
Don't waste lots of time commuting to fly. More than half an hour's travel, if you have a choice, is probably wasted. Do put some effort however into deciding if the instructor is right. Ask if you can talk to some of their existing or recent students if you like - a fair question, and somebody who has recently finished their PPL course should give you useful answers.
G
All will be priced similarly, all will use similar aeroplanes.
DO spend time chatting to your potential instructor and pay for a short trial flight with them. If it's near, and the instructor seems somebody you are happy sitting with and learning from, it's probably an appropriate school.
Don't waste lots of time commuting to fly. More than half an hour's travel, if you have a choice, is probably wasted. Do put some effort however into deciding if the instructor is right. Ask if you can talk to some of their existing or recent students if you like - a fair question, and somebody who has recently finished their PPL course should give you useful answers.
G
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of the top of my head, from where you are, use the internet and look at clubs and schools (they are not quite the same thing although both will teach you to fly) at Redhill, Damyns Hall, Stapleford, North Weald, Biggin Hill Panshanger, Elstree, Denham, Helnlow, Blackbushe, Fairoaks, Wycombe and White Waltham.
Choice of aircraft: will you be happy to fly two seaters, in daytimes and fine weather only? In which case you can use what are loosely called microlights and VLA (either three axis or weight shift, sorry, you will have to research all this!); if you want more seats and / or more flexibility you need conventional light aircraft.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I decide to do my license I will probably aim for 2 hours a week, that is the maximum I would be able to do (maybe 3 if I am allowed to fly for 3 hours straight). That should be pretty intensive course, isn't is?
2 hours a week is not remotely "intensive" for a PPL. 45 hours in two months would qualify as an "intensive" course, better described as a full time course, where you would be at the flying school 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
2 hours a week (which would be two one hour flights + 2/3 hours associated briefing/debriefings) would be a "very low intensity course" spread over 9 - 18 months (or longer) depending on your rate of learning. Most people won't do it in the minimum hours spread this way, because of the need to revise and consolidate more often when flying training is spread out.
The length of your flights (and all aspects of your training schedule) will be determined by your instructor...not you.
Don't take any of this as authoritative...or any thing else you read on here. go to flying school or two and get them to explain all this over a coffee. At the moment, reading your comments, you are somewhat in the dark.
Ah, sorry, I was being unclear. Whatever you ultimately want to do, you will probably learn on two seaters and it will be during the day and in fine weather. It's just that once you have qualified, if you want to do more than that, you need a full international (EASA in the UK) license for conventional light aircraft. If long term you want to stick to two seaters, day, VFR (more jargon to learn!) then you have the microlight / VLA option.
Does that make more sense? If not, keep asking.
Does that make more sense? If not, keep asking.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To clarify...
2 hours a week is not remotely "intensive" for a PPL. 45 hours in two months would qualify as an "intensive" course, better described as a full time course, where you would be at the flying school 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
2 hours a week (which would be two one hour flights + 2/3 hours associated briefing/debriefings) would be a "very low intensity course" spread over 9 - 18 months (or longer) depending on your rate of learning. Most people won't do it in the minimum hours spread this way, because of the need to revise and consolidate more often when flying training is spread out.
The length of your flights (and all aspects of your training schedule) will be determined by your instructor...not you.
Don't take any of this as authoritative...or any thing else you read on here. go to flying school or two and get them to explain all this over a coffee. At the moment, reading your comments, you are somewhat in the dark.
2 hours a week is not remotely "intensive" for a PPL. 45 hours in two months would qualify as an "intensive" course, better described as a full time course, where you would be at the flying school 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
2 hours a week (which would be two one hour flights + 2/3 hours associated briefing/debriefings) would be a "very low intensity course" spread over 9 - 18 months (or longer) depending on your rate of learning. Most people won't do it in the minimum hours spread this way, because of the need to revise and consolidate more often when flying training is spread out.
The length of your flights (and all aspects of your training schedule) will be determined by your instructor...not you.
Don't take any of this as authoritative...or any thing else you read on here. go to flying school or two and get them to explain all this over a coffee. At the moment, reading your comments, you are somewhat in the dark.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah, sorry, I was being unclear. Whatever you ultimately want to do, you will probably learn on two seaters and it will be during the day and in fine weather. It's just that once you have qualified, if you want to do more than that, you need a full international (EASA in the UK) license for conventional light aircraft. If long term you want to stick to two seaters, day, VFR (more jargon to learn!) then you have the microlight / VLA option.
A PPL with a SEP rating, allows you to fly, not for profit, a single-piston-engined, non-turbocharged, fixed-pitch propeller, fixed tricycle gear, non-pressurised land aeroplanes (with a few exceptions), during the day, in good visibility and within sight of the ground (in UK). There are few of these aircraft which have more than 4 seats. See Pilot licensing in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for a summary of different licence options.
The PPL includes the permission to fly "generic" single-engined piston-powered (SEP) planes such as the C152, C172, PA28 to name but the most widespread. As said, this includes two-seaters, four-seaters, and a few planes with 5 or 6 seats. A PPL can be extended with privileges like night flying and instrument flying. It is also the first step towards type ratings for more complex planes, including but not limited to twins.
Microlights OTOH can never have more than two seats and are limited to day-time VFR flying.
They make up for these limitations with lower cost of acquisition, operation, and maintenance. No to mention a less stringent medical inspection.
It really depends on what you are ultimately going or hoping to do.
Microlights OTOH can never have more than two seats and are limited to day-time VFR flying.
They make up for these limitations with lower cost of acquisition, operation, and maintenance. No to mention a less stringent medical inspection.
It really depends on what you are ultimately going or hoping to do.
I don't quite follow this statement - do you mean that certain schools will be able to provide proper, four seater planes while others only 2-seater and I should not even bother with those?
There is no real difference between the skills required to fly a single, 2, 4 or for that matter 6 or 8 seater aeroplane. So long as you're flying something in good condition with a fairly standard set of instruments - just learn in something reasonably inexpensive.
Once you have your licence, if you want to convert to flying something else, just do that - so long as your flying skills are reasonably sharp, expect to take 60-90 minutes. You can also switch flying clubs whenever you wish, although unless they've mucked you about, I'd not recommend doing that during your PPL course.
I don't think that anybody would recommend doing the NPPL(SSEA) straight off; so, either do the JAR-PPL(SEP) or decide to fly microlights for now and do the NPPL(M). A microlight licence is much cheaper, but limits you to microlights (which don't have more than 2 seats) - a light aircraft (SEP) licence allows you to convert to microlights fairly cheaply and easily.
G
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
our CFI said that on average, a PPL took 18 months to two years to achieve.
G
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The length of your flights (and all aspects of your training schedule) will be determined by your instructor...not you.
our CFI said that on average, a PPL took 18 months to two years to achieve.
Does he have any figures for that? Not saying he's wrong as they may indeed be the average figures but it seems an awful long time.
Does he have any figures for that? Not saying he's wrong as they may indeed be the average figures but it seems an awful long time.
But so far he's been correct in my case...practically two years training and no where near skills test yet...
