A question for Instructors and experienced PPL's
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I can't believe the prices you have just quoted. It's £200 a year and £6.50 for a launch at our gliding club. Even if you don't own or have a share in a glider it's only £24 an hour to fly a club glider. As for snobby, try getting out of the home counties sometime. Real gliding clubs are completely different.
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it's only £24 an hour to fly a club glider
Gliding is a different community.
someone can talk before it becomes dull 
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It is a different community, I don't find it dull because there's plenty to do. If you're not flying you can be on the winch or duty pilot, that sort of thing. If you view it as a day out with a bunch of like minded blokes who enjoy a laugh and there's some flying thrown in as well you won't be far short of the mark. Totally different mind set to the turn up, fly, go home mentality of the powered pilot.
I suppose gliding is more of a communal pastime. If you enjoy talking crap all day (in the nicest way), trying to out tall story the next guy then gliding is for you. Much like here really.
I suppose gliding is more of a communal pastime. If you enjoy talking crap all day (in the nicest way), trying to out tall story the next guy then gliding is for you. Much like here really.
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Horses for courses. It would be great to hang out all day, shooting the breeze, the problem is that most time, with certainly my time at a premium, days spent 'flying', have to do precisely that - fly.
I think gliding is very worthwhile, teaches you great volumes regarding 'aerdynamics and stick and rudder', however, unless you are based at a gliding location that can give decent access to mountain wave, thermal activity, then, sporadic flights can be very short.
That said, nothing better than to while away the hours, sniffing the newly cut grass, just landed, and a beer in hand. When the sun shines obviously
I think gliding is very worthwhile, teaches you great volumes regarding 'aerdynamics and stick and rudder', however, unless you are based at a gliding location that can give decent access to mountain wave, thermal activity, then, sporadic flights can be very short.
That said, nothing better than to while away the hours, sniffing the newly cut grass, just landed, and a beer in hand. When the sun shines obviously
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The only advantage of course of class A over microlighting is the ability to IFR. Which is one of the main reasons I did it, in this country IMO IFR is almost a necessity unless you are happy to pick the nice days, in which case I would have stuck with gliding. I wanted to open up the possibilities of travel with a powered license.
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The aircraft can be surprisingly affordable
I looked into microlighting and the LAA scene and was amazed at the prices that some of the better ones go for.
Depends what you want out of your flying.
An X'Air 582 would cost you around £7k, and a Jabiru around £18k, either will be around 10 years old and carry you and a pax for probably 3 hours, the first at about 60 knots, the second nearer 90, both costing around £40/hr all-in to run.
Yes, you can spend a great deal more - but then what are you comparing? A new CT or Dynamic at about £60k and costing about £50/hr to fly versus a new C162 at about £200k and costing about £75/yr to fly.
Microlighting, unless you judge it badly wrong, is a lot cheaper.
G
An X'Air 582 would cost you around £7k, and a Jabiru around £18k, either will be around 10 years old and carry you and a pax for probably 3 hours, the first at about 60 knots, the second nearer 90, both costing around £40/hr all-in to run.
Yes, you can spend a great deal more - but then what are you comparing? A new CT or Dynamic at about £60k and costing about £50/hr to fly versus a new C162 at about £200k and costing about £75/yr to fly.
Microlighting, unless you judge it badly wrong, is a lot cheaper.
G
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I have not read the entire thread and therefore i apologise if what i am about to say has little or no relevance, but perhaps just for a bit of inspiration, there was a guy who trained at my local school who took 4 years to complete his PPL! But what was amazing was the fact he did it in 45 hours! Im guessing some of his exams must have expired so he would have had to do some twice but in all i think to do an average of 1 lesson per month and still pass within the minima is pretty amazing! I guess it shows that once you learn the basics, the handling and finally get past your solo, then it starts to become like riding a bike!
I think that because you are so close to going solo, you are quite possibly capable of doing the solo right now! however you are hanging on to the comfort of having your instructor with you using the excuse of 'being rusty from training gaps'. I think you should save up a couple of hours worth of cash, get a solid set of dual circuits done, on a day with goood weather,then just do that solo! after that, the 'like riding a bike' sets in and you 'technically' never forget! My instructor has a funny way of sending people solo, he tells them literally just before he steps out of the airplane, then absolutely refuses to take 'No i dont want to' as an answer! when he sent me solo, i hadn't had a lesson in two weeks, we went up, did one ok'ish touch and go, landed on the second, then he got out gave me some last sec advice (like 'if im going to crash make sure i throw his watch out of the window first' as i had to borrow it) then he walked off and left me too it! I absolutely crapped myself! but i did it! and it was easier than i could ever have imagined!
After that i come back a few days later and got 4 hours of solo circuits out of the way within 4 days, the landings did get a bit sketchy as i got more a little over confident, but by the time i was done i really did look at flying differently, I knew i had become a pilot!
Now, i did have a month gap a few lessons after doing solo circuits and i was scared that i would forget enough to end up killing myself, I did a dual nav exercise then my instructor got out and sent me back out to do it solo ...in reverse! Once again i had to overcome the fear of going 'solo' knowing i had not been in a plane in 4 weeks, however i got airbourne, everything came back to me, did the nav without issue and i returned to the aerodrome and performed the best & smoothest landing to date! i was so happy with myself!
I think that because you are so close to going solo, you are quite possibly capable of doing the solo right now! however you are hanging on to the comfort of having your instructor with you using the excuse of 'being rusty from training gaps'. I think you should save up a couple of hours worth of cash, get a solid set of dual circuits done, on a day with goood weather,then just do that solo! after that, the 'like riding a bike' sets in and you 'technically' never forget! My instructor has a funny way of sending people solo, he tells them literally just before he steps out of the airplane, then absolutely refuses to take 'No i dont want to' as an answer! when he sent me solo, i hadn't had a lesson in two weeks, we went up, did one ok'ish touch and go, landed on the second, then he got out gave me some last sec advice (like 'if im going to crash make sure i throw his watch out of the window first' as i had to borrow it) then he walked off and left me too it! I absolutely crapped myself! but i did it! and it was easier than i could ever have imagined!
After that i come back a few days later and got 4 hours of solo circuits out of the way within 4 days, the landings did get a bit sketchy as i got more a little over confident, but by the time i was done i really did look at flying differently, I knew i had become a pilot!
Now, i did have a month gap a few lessons after doing solo circuits and i was scared that i would forget enough to end up killing myself, I did a dual nav exercise then my instructor got out and sent me back out to do it solo ...in reverse! Once again i had to overcome the fear of going 'solo' knowing i had not been in a plane in 4 weeks, however i got airbourne, everything came back to me, did the nav without issue and i returned to the aerodrome and performed the best & smoothest landing to date! i was so happy with myself!
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@RyanRs, thank you for the contribution and what you say is indeed very relevant. Of course there is a certain reluctance to go solo but not a "fear" of going solo as such. You are also correct when you suggest I am "using" the gaps as an reason for not going solo but I stop you at the point of using them as an avoidance excuse. When cash is tight I would be very mindful of wasting it on pointless lessons that do nothing but add lines on my logbook. My comments about flying for fun are equally relevant but I would definitely get more excitement and fun if I spend my €200 on flying solo at this point. So, solo is the ultimate goal for now and I have two options both of which have been suggested by your good selves.
1.........transfer to microlight......better value and more affordable in the longterm
2.....save up for a block of lessons and get that solo done + a few hours solo circuit hrs in quick succession.
I will also add (in response to an earlier post) that I am not "maxed out " in the circuit at this point, everything is nice and fluid including very busy ATC comms as I train at a commercial airport. It's the elusive timing in my flare that I need to nail down. I'm confident that once I get that "picture" right in my mind it will stick like glue and my first major hurdle will be overcome.
BTW , knowing that somebody took four years and only 45 hours to get licensed is a huge comfort.
1.........transfer to microlight......better value and more affordable in the longterm
2.....save up for a block of lessons and get that solo done + a few hours solo circuit hrs in quick succession.
I will also add (in response to an earlier post) that I am not "maxed out " in the circuit at this point, everything is nice and fluid including very busy ATC comms as I train at a commercial airport. It's the elusive timing in my flare that I need to nail down. I'm confident that once I get that "picture" right in my mind it will stick like glue and my first major hurdle will be overcome.
BTW , knowing that somebody took four years and only 45 hours to get licensed is a huge comfort.
Last edited by AOB9; 16th Mar 2012 at 23:00.
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I know it sounds daft but try not to land.
Skim her a foot off the deck then take the power to idle and try not to land, while looking at the far end waggling the rudder so the instructor thinks you know what your doing with it.
Skim her a foot off the deck then take the power to idle and try not to land, while looking at the far end waggling the rudder so the instructor thinks you know what your doing with it.
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@mad_jock Coming from somebody with almost 6,000 posts I will take that as very sound advice and will certainly give it a go next time out. I understand your what you are saying, there is an urgency about sticking the plane to the ground when I get to a certain point.
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Its not the post count that should count.
I have done a reasonable amount of ppl instructing, not as much as some here but enough.
The whole thing about short strips is to be at the right place at the right speed. To fast and you are stuffed. Alwasy make sure you are trimmed as well.
And if your not down by the certain point don't force her down when she still wants to fly , all that will happen is that you will balloon or the ground will reject you and she will bounce.
And instructors love it when students make the go-around call and just do it.
So you make the call and fly it.
What aircraft type and what approach speed are you using?
I have done a reasonable amount of ppl instructing, not as much as some here but enough.
The whole thing about short strips is to be at the right place at the right speed. To fast and you are stuffed. Alwasy make sure you are trimmed as well.
And if your not down by the certain point don't force her down when she still wants to fly , all that will happen is that you will balloon or the ground will reject you and she will bounce.
And instructors love it when students make the go-around call and just do it.
So you make the call and fly it.
What aircraft type and what approach speed are you using?
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Mad has sound advice there.
When landing, I tend to describe it as trying as hard as possible not to let the wheels touch, but getting lower and lower whilst you play that game. You'll usually lose (aka:land)
Try imagining where the wheels are and try to have the controls in motion, coming back as the wheels touch. Don't stop flaring
Bb
When landing, I tend to describe it as trying as hard as possible not to let the wheels touch, but getting lower and lower whilst you play that game. You'll usually lose (aka:land)
Try imagining where the wheels are and try to have the controls in motion, coming back as the wheels touch. Don't stop flaring
Bb
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Cessna 172 , Flaps stage 2; 70 knots............ normally . Also Flaps stage 3 @ 60-65 knots but this is purely for "variation" and is not standard. Runaway is "huge", over 2,000 m, Asphalt.
In many ways the runway makes training easier, whereas being a commercial airport there is great exposure to ATC comms and compliance.
@Big_Buddha36 "Don't stop Flaring". That's exactly what my instructor keeps saying "Keep the back pressure on the column"
I'll get there, I know I will.
In many ways the runway makes training easier, whereas being a commercial airport there is great exposure to ATC comms and compliance.
@Big_Buddha36 "Don't stop Flaring". That's exactly what my instructor keeps saying "Keep the back pressure on the column"
I'll get there, I know I will.
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C172 sometimes can be a sod because they just don't want to stop flying.
The one I used to instruct on it took me 150 hours to realise I had to hold it in the flare until you needed a marked increase in back pressure in the flare and the back end seemed to drop and it made a noise like airwolf.
Seen some quite spectacular bounces in them when folk try and put them on the ground before they are ready to stop flying.
The one I used to instruct on it took me 150 hours to realise I had to hold it in the flare until you needed a marked increase in back pressure in the flare and the back end seemed to drop and it made a noise like airwolf.
Seen some quite spectacular bounces in them when folk try and put them on the ground before they are ready to stop flying.