European International VFR Flight Considerations
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bahamas / Sweden / Ireland / Australia
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European International VFR Flight Considerations
Hi All,
I am looking for some advice on flying VFR between different countries in Europe (specifically Sweden and Estonia). I hold a JAA PPL but as I am primarily based in the USA and the Bahamas I haven't had much of a chance to use it in Europe (I also have an FAA PPL with IR).
I regularly travel to Sweden for work and I am a member for a Swedish flying club but so far any flying I have done has been within Sweden. On my next trip I am hoping to do a flight from Stockholm to Estonia (Kardla and then on to Tallinn). Obviously I plan on chatting to people at the flying club to get some advice from them as I am sure they have been there and done that but I also just want to start doing some research in advance.
The obvious things to me are to read up on the AIP of Sweden (which I am familiar with) and Estonia and to get my hands on some Estonian charts. The thing that I am really not up to speed on is flight plans and flight planning. I use SkyDemon for my flight planning and both Sweden and Estonia are in there so I think that should cover the planning side of things. However, I have never filed an international flight plan in Europe so I have no idea what is involved there.
So, can anybody point me to any good links with some up to date information on flying around Europe in general and/or if anybody has done the trip from Sweden to Estonia before, do you have any advice?
Thanks very much.
HF
I am looking for some advice on flying VFR between different countries in Europe (specifically Sweden and Estonia). I hold a JAA PPL but as I am primarily based in the USA and the Bahamas I haven't had much of a chance to use it in Europe (I also have an FAA PPL with IR).
I regularly travel to Sweden for work and I am a member for a Swedish flying club but so far any flying I have done has been within Sweden. On my next trip I am hoping to do a flight from Stockholm to Estonia (Kardla and then on to Tallinn). Obviously I plan on chatting to people at the flying club to get some advice from them as I am sure they have been there and done that but I also just want to start doing some research in advance.
The obvious things to me are to read up on the AIP of Sweden (which I am familiar with) and Estonia and to get my hands on some Estonian charts. The thing that I am really not up to speed on is flight plans and flight planning. I use SkyDemon for my flight planning and both Sweden and Estonia are in there so I think that should cover the planning side of things. However, I have never filed an international flight plan in Europe so I have no idea what is involved there.
So, can anybody point me to any good links with some up to date information on flying around Europe in general and/or if anybody has done the trip from Sweden to Estonia before, do you have any advice?
Thanks very much.
HF
Last edited by HighFlyer75; 17th Jul 2012 at 13:58.
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SkyDemon will file your flightplan for you to all the right addresses and in a valid format, and with your EET to any FIR boundaries, but you may wish to read the Swedish and Estonian AIPs in case either want anything extra specified in there.
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I've flown between these countries a number of times. The Baltic state VFR charts from Jeppesen have been re-organised to provide a very convenient layout for Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania in just 2 charts.
Estonia ATC is very helpful but be aware that it's quite expensive to land and park in Tallinn and you will have to go through baggage scanning to get out again so no cans of Estonian beer!
I've flown that route overhead Kardla but not landed there. It's a long sea crossing with few ships in sight to Sweden. Visby Island is a nice place to refuel though. Another way to do it is from Stockholm to Marihamn (lovely place, good for an overnight) and then to wonderful Malmi in Finland. From there it's just 30 mins to Tallinn. The Mariehamn route to Helsinki passes close to Turku and has thousands of islands along the way.
Regarding flight planning, the Baltic states like you to put in waypoints every hour or so wheras in Sweden you can file for hours without any. When crossing international FIRs you need to put in the EET at each crossing with the FIR designator which you can find on the Jeppesen charts but not always the ICAO ones. It's a good idea to include an IFR intersection name for an FIR boundary crossing. Something like 'EET KOSKA 0130'.
I use the UK FPL system 'AFPEX' for filing, but I suspect in the countries you could ring the AIS number and file over the phone if you wanted to. AIS will often reply to VFR FPL's with helpful information so it's good to check before you depart if you have the means. Beware of filing the night before: VFR FPL's with a 'DOF' item often seem to go missing.
All the public airports will help you out with flight plan submission but beware there may be a departure delay after handing the form before you can go. For VFR there's no need for alternates (a good idea to have some though) and no special equipment requirements like mode S in these countries.
All these counties have free AIP information easily available online. There are some charts online as well, including a VFR one for Malmi. I use ICAO for Sweden (7 expensive charts North to South), Finland (6 Charts but you'd only need the Southern one) and Jeppesen for the Baltics and the rest of Europe. Make sure your charts meet up over the sea - mine didn't the first time I did this and I had to imagine the bit in the middle!
I often think of flying in Scandinavia as being a minature version of the mid-west. Lakes and forests from horizon to horizon, no other traffic, helpful controllers, lovely state maintained airports, no hassle, just relaxing enjoyable flying. Have a good trip!
(Just edited to add: Excellent English spoken by ATC everywhere, but be aware smaller private airports speak to local traffic in the home language. In my experience they always speak English when you call, but it's good to assume PPR and phone them first. It's also a long walk from some of these places to the hotel if there's no-one there!).
Estonia ATC is very helpful but be aware that it's quite expensive to land and park in Tallinn and you will have to go through baggage scanning to get out again so no cans of Estonian beer!
I've flown that route overhead Kardla but not landed there. It's a long sea crossing with few ships in sight to Sweden. Visby Island is a nice place to refuel though. Another way to do it is from Stockholm to Marihamn (lovely place, good for an overnight) and then to wonderful Malmi in Finland. From there it's just 30 mins to Tallinn. The Mariehamn route to Helsinki passes close to Turku and has thousands of islands along the way.
Regarding flight planning, the Baltic states like you to put in waypoints every hour or so wheras in Sweden you can file for hours without any. When crossing international FIRs you need to put in the EET at each crossing with the FIR designator which you can find on the Jeppesen charts but not always the ICAO ones. It's a good idea to include an IFR intersection name for an FIR boundary crossing. Something like 'EET KOSKA 0130'.
I use the UK FPL system 'AFPEX' for filing, but I suspect in the countries you could ring the AIS number and file over the phone if you wanted to. AIS will often reply to VFR FPL's with helpful information so it's good to check before you depart if you have the means. Beware of filing the night before: VFR FPL's with a 'DOF' item often seem to go missing.
All the public airports will help you out with flight plan submission but beware there may be a departure delay after handing the form before you can go. For VFR there's no need for alternates (a good idea to have some though) and no special equipment requirements like mode S in these countries.
All these counties have free AIP information easily available online. There are some charts online as well, including a VFR one for Malmi. I use ICAO for Sweden (7 expensive charts North to South), Finland (6 Charts but you'd only need the Southern one) and Jeppesen for the Baltics and the rest of Europe. Make sure your charts meet up over the sea - mine didn't the first time I did this and I had to imagine the bit in the middle!
I often think of flying in Scandinavia as being a minature version of the mid-west. Lakes and forests from horizon to horizon, no other traffic, helpful controllers, lovely state maintained airports, no hassle, just relaxing enjoyable flying. Have a good trip!
(Just edited to add: Excellent English spoken by ATC everywhere, but be aware smaller private airports speak to local traffic in the home language. In my experience they always speak English when you call, but it's good to assume PPR and phone them first. It's also a long walk from some of these places to the hotel if there's no-one there!).
Last edited by david viewing; 2nd Mar 2012 at 13:18.
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I have some trip writeups on my website which show the general idea with long VFR trips.
If you can fly within say Sweden then flying elsewhere in Europe is not a problem. There is just a pile of "operational" considerations to deal with e.g. flight plans, Customs PNR, getting hold of suitable charts, etc.
If you can fly within say Sweden then flying elsewhere in Europe is not a problem. There is just a pile of "operational" considerations to deal with e.g. flight plans, Customs PNR, getting hold of suitable charts, etc.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bahamas / Sweden / Ireland / Australia
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I have been a bit busy lately so apologies for not saying this sooner. Thanks very much for your helpful replies (David, a big thanks for the region specific information). All in all I have a good idea now of the things I need to consider when I look to do these flights in the next few months.
Cheers,
HF
Cheers,
HF
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Get KSAK, the Royal Swedish Aeronautical Society's, fantastic VFR charts at their web shop in 1:250000. They're the best in the world, I think, and should be the way all VFR charts are made; superclear, uncluttered and very user friendly.
TMA Sverige
TMA Sverige
