RT etiquette - Another Stupid Question
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Oh yes, I've got another one.....in my Piper Supercub with a British chum in the back seat, just setting out on an excursion to Ireland the long way round....still had a transponder etc. Departing Shenington Gliding Club heading North, the 4 eighths became 6 eighths became 7 eighths....cloudbase 800 feet. I had of course been monitoring Birmingham Approach. Decided
what the heck, and requested a climb into their sacred airspace. Hadn't heard a single chirp out of anyone else asking any sort of service at all, so they were NOT BUSY.
Request denied.
Tried again few minutes later. Request denied. and one more time, as it was getting really interesting remaining VFR. Still request denied. Whereupon a listening Speedbird (for you Yanks, that's British Airways) intoned
"You're not in America now, you know!"
You can say that again! So recognising through a gap in the clouds the factory roofs at Lutterworth, dived down and nipped into Husbands Bosworth, gliding club, and had a nice breakfast while waiting for conditions to improve. Which they did eventually. In the remainder of the extended journey, all Radar services and ATC in Ireland North and South bent over backwards to be kind and helpful.
But as other posters on this delightful thread have remarked, the way to open your conversation with any service is to say simply, "Birmingham Approach, this is Supercub Golf Oscar Foxtrot Echo Romeo" and then wait for them to come back to you.....which they will. Eventually.
what the heck, and requested a climb into their sacred airspace. Hadn't heard a single chirp out of anyone else asking any sort of service at all, so they were NOT BUSY.
Request denied.
Tried again few minutes later. Request denied. and one more time, as it was getting really interesting remaining VFR. Still request denied. Whereupon a listening Speedbird (for you Yanks, that's British Airways) intoned
"You're not in America now, you know!"
You can say that again! So recognising through a gap in the clouds the factory roofs at Lutterworth, dived down and nipped into Husbands Bosworth, gliding club, and had a nice breakfast while waiting for conditions to improve. Which they did eventually. In the remainder of the extended journey, all Radar services and ATC in Ireland North and South bent over backwards to be kind and helpful.
But as other posters on this delightful thread have remarked, the way to open your conversation with any service is to say simply, "Birmingham Approach, this is Supercub Golf Oscar Foxtrot Echo Romeo" and then wait for them to come back to you.....which they will. Eventually.
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Good morning, Genghis, did you have a nice weekend? We sure did! great weather for February!
Can't resist this one...regarding requests for direct routing.....I was listening out on channel 9 in a United transatlantic flight, when an American Airlines flight requested a direct route to Bovingdon from someplace up North....
The London controller gently remarked that his requested direct would take him directly through a Danger Zone where missile and other ordinance was likely to be encountered.....
Where upon a Speedbird commented on frequency "Go for it!"
Can't resist this one...regarding requests for direct routing.....I was listening out on channel 9 in a United transatlantic flight, when an American Airlines flight requested a direct route to Bovingdon from someplace up North....
The London controller gently remarked that his requested direct would take him directly through a Danger Zone where missile and other ordinance was likely to be encountered.....
Where upon a Speedbird commented on frequency "Go for it!"
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I've waded through the above and one obvious point re.the first call seems to have been missed. It's often the the practice to state the "intention" of the flight on the first call, ie Local, outbound, inbound or transit, to enable the correct coloured ATC strip to be used.
Also, for a pilot new to UK airspace,as said already, a good understanding of the UK, ATC, AFIS,A/G services, plus the difference between "basic, traffic, procedural and deconfliction" is required.
Also, for a pilot new to UK airspace,as said already, a good understanding of the UK, ATC, AFIS,A/G services, plus the difference between "basic, traffic, procedural and deconfliction" is required.
Good morning, Genghis, did you have a nice weekend? We sure did! great weather for February!
Your post illustrates very well, as did BPF's post - both the US and the UK have a proportion of pillocks flying aeroplanes, and sometimes both countries are stupid enough to let them out to annoy other countries. No great surprise really. (Visit the more popular tourist destinations of both countries and you discover that it's not just idiot pilots that shouldn't be allowed to travel of course).
Where were we? Oh yes, the OP asking some sensible questions about VFR RT and it being demonstrated that normal practice varies between countries, and often between airfields within countries.
I flew from Thermal to Palm Springs a year or so ago - very different places in RT terms! Ditto if, say, I went from Cranfield to Popham. Learn it, and live with it ! Which seemed to be what the OP was trying to do.
G
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BFP there are some that are just as guilty of stupidity like that where ever they come from. The use of roger and wilco seems to be alien to alot from what ever nationality.
I was intending to mean more about the manditory readbacks and set phrases eg "climbing flight level xxxx" some see them as anally retentive but they work.
There are more than a few Yanks with clear and concise RT but I suspect that they are old hands outside the USA and experence has taught them a way that works.
And thing in the UK currently all transition alts are below 7 000 ft so you won't have to. BTW its FL one hundred. FL two hundred and FL one five zero etc for the others.
And to be honest silver has a very good point. I know what I am doing with IFR coms (which to be honest is easier than VFR) but i am out of practise with VFR. It is also very common as well for instructors when transfering to IFR operations to be almost back to square one again with RT. They were poo hot at VFR coms position reports, free calling and the like. Different set of phrases and it throws them out until they begin to know what to expect next and set responce.
I was intending to mean more about the manditory readbacks and set phrases eg "climbing flight level xxxx" some see them as anally retentive but they work.
There are more than a few Yanks with clear and concise RT but I suspect that they are old hands outside the USA and experence has taught them a way that works.
And thing in the UK currently all transition alts are below 7 000 ft so you won't have to. BTW its FL one hundred. FL two hundred and FL one five zero etc for the others.
And to be honest silver has a very good point. I know what I am doing with IFR coms (which to be honest is easier than VFR) but i am out of practise with VFR. It is also very common as well for instructors when transfering to IFR operations to be almost back to square one again with RT. They were poo hot at VFR coms position reports, free calling and the like. Different set of phrases and it throws them out until they begin to know what to expect next and set responce.
Last edited by mad_jock; 27th Feb 2012 at 11:30.
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I think basically what we are saying here is that procedures in the USA vary from those used in the UK.
In Europe I can see why it is essential to stick to the standard speak as someone's level of English can be very basic.
