any news on Mogas?

[africanbushpilot]

I am wondering what will be the solution for when we all run out of AVGAS 100LL. I am currently flying a P68 (IO360) in Saudi Arabia and I am paying 7 USD/liter for Avgas. We are having troubles ordering it and 98 octane Auto fuel is basically for free here.
All the Diesel conversions of flight schools are mostly grounded after a couple of hours due to (Expensive) maintenance (and you always need some guy from Austria to do this) so I lost my faith in that one as well. I am looking forward to Lycoming and Continental coming up with a solution to keep flying their engines with another (Existing and cheap) type of fuel! Like Auto Fuel for example and obviously it will be to their advantage too! If they don't come up with something I can see the the majority of aircraft becoming grounded or if you have the money to spend fit a diesel engine and fly it for a very short while until you have to buy another new engine (Or fit it with ROTAX maybe, but I don't really like that one either)

Anyway have you guys any good news about this?

[africanbushpilot]

Yes, just found this list of approved engines for the auto-fuel STC (Petersen) but would love to hear that directly from Lycoming or Continenal!

Engines Approved For Auto Fuel

An asterisk denotes 91 octane minimum.
All others are 87 octane minimum, with the exception of some R-1830's.

Continental:
A-65-1, -3, -6, -6J, -7, -8, (0-170-3, -7)-8F, -8FJ, -8J, -9, (0-170-5), -9F, -9FJ, -9J, -12, -12F, -12FJ, -12J, -14, -14F, -14FJ, -14J A-75-3, -6, -6J, -8, -8F, -8J, -8FJ, -9, -9J C-75-8, -8F, -8FH, -8FHJ, -8FJ, -8J, -12, -12F, -12FH, -12FHJ, -12FJ, -12J, -12B, -12BF, -12BFH, -15, -15F,
C85-8, -8F, -8FHJ, -8FJ, -8J, -12, -12F, -12FH, -12FHJ, -12FJ, -12J, -14F, -15, -15F C-90-8F, -8FJ, -12F, -12FH, -12FJ, -12FP, -14F, -14FH, -14FJ, -16F, 0-200-A, 0-200-B, 0200-C
C-115-1, C-115-2, C-125-1, C-125 E-165-2, -3, -4, E-185-1, -2, -3, (0-470-7, -7A), -5, -8, -9, (0-470-7B), -10, -11 E-225-2, -4, -8, -9 0-300-A, -B, -C, -D, -E, C-145-2, -2H, -2HP.
GO-300-A, -B, -C, -D, -E, -F 0-470-A, -E, -J, -K, -L, -R, -S. 0-470-4, -11, -11B, -11-CI. -11B-CI, -13, -13A, -15 IO-470-J & -K, W670-6A, (R-670-3, -5), -6N, (R-670-4), -16 (R-670-8, -11, -11A), -23, -24, -K, -M

Franklin:
6A4-150-B3, B4, B31, 6A4-165-B3, B4, B6, 4AC-176-B2, B3, BA2, (0-175-1), BA3, C2, C3, D2, D3, F2, F3

Jacobs:
R-755 Series

Kinner:
R-5 Series 2, R-55, R-56, (R-540-1, -3)
Lycoming:
0-145-B1, -B2, -B3, -C1, -C2, GO-145-C1, -C2,-C3, -A1, -A2
0-235-C, -C1, -C1B, -E1, -E1B, -C1C, -C1A, -H2C, -C2A, -C2B, -E2A, -E2B, -L2A*, -L2C*, -M1*, -M2C*, -M3C*, -N2A*, -N2C*, -P1*, -P2A*, -P2C*, -P3C*
0-290, -A, -AP, -B, (0-290-1), -C, (0-290-3),-CP, -D, (0-290-11), -D2, -D2A, -D2B, -D2C
0-320, 0-320-A1A, -A1B, -A2A, -A2B, -A2C,-A2D, -A3A, -A3B, -A3C, -B1A*, -B1B*, -B2A*,-B2B*, -B2C*, -B3A*, -B3B*, -B3C*, -C1A, -C1B, -C2A, -C2B, -C2C, -C3A,-C3B, -C3C, -D1A*, -D1B*, -D1C*, -D1D*, -D1F*, -D2A*, -D2B*, -D2C*, -D2F*, -D2G*, -D2H*, -D2J*, -D3G*, -E1A, -E1B,- E1C, -E1F, -E2A, -E2B, -E2C, -E2D, -E2F, -E2G,-E2H, -E3D, -E3H,-E1J.

0-360-B1A, -B1B, -B2A, -B2B, -D1A, -D2A,-D2B, -A1A*, -A1AD*, -A1D*,-A1F*,-A1F6*, -A1F6D*, A1H6*, -A1G*,-A1G6*, -A1G6D*, -A1H*, -A1H6*, -A1LD*, -A1P*, -A2A*, -A2D*, -A2E*, -A2F*, -A2G*, -A2H*,-A3A*, -A3AD*, -A3D*,-A4A*, -A4AD*, -A4D*, A4G*, -A4J*, -A4K*, -A4M*, -A4N*, -A5AD*, -C1A*, -C1C*, -C1E*, -C1F*, -C1G*, -C2A*, -C2C*, -C2E*, -C4F*, -C4P*, -F1A6*, -G1A6*, -J2A*, H0-360-C1A*

0-435, 0-435-A, 0-435-C (0-435-1),0-435-C1,(0-435-11), 0-435-C2 (0-435-13)

0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*, -A1A5*, -A1B5*,
-A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*, -D1A5*,
-E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*, -H2A5D*, -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*

[ R-680-E3*, E3A*, E3B*, (R-680-9*, -13*) R-680, R-680-E1, E2, -6, -B6, -D5, -D6, -B2, -BA -2, -4, -B4, -B4B, -B4C, -B4D, -B4E, (R-680-5, -7, -8, -11, -17) R-680-5, -B5

Pratt & Whitney
R-985-13, -17, -19, -23, -25, -27, -39, 39A, -48, -50, -AN-1, -AN-1M1, -AN-2, -AN-3,
-AN-4, -AN-5, -AN-6, -AN-6B, -AN-8, -AN-10, AN-12, -AN-12B, -AN-14B, -AN-14BMI, T1B2, T1B3, B-4, B-5, SB, SB-2, SB-3

R-1340-E, -19, -22, -29, -36, -40, -47,-49,-49M1, -51, -AN-1, -AN-2, -51M1, -53, -57, -59, -61, S1D1, S3H1, S3H1G, S1H2, S1H1, S1H4, S3H2

R-1830-49, -53, -57, -82, -92, -92A, -96, SC-G, SC3-G, S1C-G, S1C3-G, S4C4-G, R-1830-43, -43A, -61, -65, -67, -75, -86M2, -90B, -90C, -90D, -94, -94M1, -94M2, -S3C4-G

Ranger
6-440-C2 (L-440-1), -C3, -C4, -C5 (L-440-2, 3, 5, 7)

Rolls Royce:
C90-8F, 8FJ, 12F, -12FH, -12FJ, -12FP, -14F, -14FH, -14FJ, -16F, -RR 0-200-A, -B, -C
0-300-A, -B, -C, -D


Warner:
Super Scarab 40, 50 (R-500-2), 50A (R-500-4, -6)
Scarab Series 28, 29, 30, 40, 50
Super Scarab 165 (R-500-1, -7), 165-A, 165-B, 165-D, 185, 185J (R-550-1, -3), 185K

[Pilot DAR]

ABP,

I have been flying Mogas for more than 25 years. Used properly, it is an excellent aviation fuel. That said, there are many installations where it just does not work well, or with an adequate margin of safety. Without going into a long dissertation on this, in general, the compatibility of the gasoline with the engine itself (which is mostly the anti knock "octane" properties of the gasoline) are only one of several important elements.

The ability of the aircraft fuel system to safely deliver the fuel is every bit as important. This centers on the considerations of "vapour lock" among other factors. Therefore, you can have a Mogas approved engine in an aircraft which cannot deliver the Mogas to the engine safely. I did a lot of Mogas testing in the late 1980's, and have first hand experience with these factors. This is why a "Mogas STC" is a combination of an engine and ariframe STC for the subject aircraft - it's not just the engine.

Though new genertion airframe fuel systems can be designed to be Mogas compatible, existing airframe systems may not be compatible. Obviously, the cost to retrofit and approve these systems could be very high, and there is little incentive, as few owners seem eager to spend tens of thousands to retrofit their aircraft to a newer fuel system. If they were en mass, we'd be seeing leaps and bounds of progress - we're not.

Then add on top of that, the reality that Mogas is being changed to contain "oxygenates" which can wreak havoc with some fuel system materials. So, even if you get the fuel system working with gasoline, you have to account for the non gasoline elements of the "Mogas", and you're starting all over with the approval.

Diesel engines and Jet fuel are the way of the future for many GA aircraft. All it takes are the large number of aircraft owners ready to make the investment in these aircraft, to provide the market incentive to the engine manufacturers to overcome the development hiccups.

[Rod1]

In those areas where people would make that investment, driven by high taxation, the same governments that created the tax issues are busy eliminating GA for transportation. The pilots who are flying GA are increasingly being forced into sub-GA VFR/day aircraft that in many cases are not allowed to leave their country (typically a small geographic area), or even talk to ATC. Power requirements for that type of aircraft are small, and the 80-100 HP Rotax already burns auto fuel.

Far from beeping forced many of us have joined this group very willingly. Almost no geographical restriction in Europe - 138kn on 18.5 LPG 2 up with bags moden glass and no 1950's tec and negotiations ongoing to remove the ir restriction.

Rod1
Apologies for the spelling!

[mikehallam]

Rod 1 Mogas fields ?

Rod,

Today a BMAA post asked for mogas/unleaded airfields. I recall you did a lot on that but having searched the usual forums & google can't find a mention.
Perhaps you could referesh ?
Regards,

mike hallam.

[Jabawocky]

Diesel engines and Jet fuel are the way of the future for many GA aircraft.

I do not believe this is true.

I do know that G100UL is not far from the final FAA approvals. After that, G100UL will be a simple to make, simple to transport and simple to deliver Unleaded AVGAS, and will be able to be produced by any decent refinery.

Just hang in there a little bit longer!