Special winter ops.
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Join Date: May 2009
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Special winter ops.
Hey Guys,
Looking for some special non standard, or standard tricks I don't know about keeping a DA40NG operation this time of year.
The problem is the fuel temp, before you can run a ECU test the left tank fuel temp needs to be warm enough. This takes up to an hour of engine running. The a/c is hangared but un heated. Was thinking of getting an installed engine heater but that does not help the fuel. As the a/c is hangared I think that's not really a huge concern, although ground power was required once this year.
So, I wondered about insulated wing covers but how much differences does that make? Tried keeping tanks relatively empty and refueling but fresh fuel is pretty cold here too. I was playing with the idea of having two hair dryers pointing in the fuel tanks for half an hour but am sure there are safety issues and quite frankly that's daft..... I think! A non aviation friend of mind suggested lighting bomb fires under the wings... Needless to say I nodded and ignored. Works in Russia on trucks apparently lol
Any advice?
Thanks
Uberwang
Looking for some special non standard, or standard tricks I don't know about keeping a DA40NG operation this time of year.
The problem is the fuel temp, before you can run a ECU test the left tank fuel temp needs to be warm enough. This takes up to an hour of engine running. The a/c is hangared but un heated. Was thinking of getting an installed engine heater but that does not help the fuel. As the a/c is hangared I think that's not really a huge concern, although ground power was required once this year.
So, I wondered about insulated wing covers but how much differences does that make? Tried keeping tanks relatively empty and refueling but fresh fuel is pretty cold here too. I was playing with the idea of having two hair dryers pointing in the fuel tanks for half an hour but am sure there are safety issues and quite frankly that's daft..... I think! A non aviation friend of mind suggested lighting bomb fires under the wings... Needless to say I nodded and ignored. Works in Russia on trucks apparently lol
Any advice?
Thanks
Uberwang
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You need insulated and heated covers. Now as to whether these actually exist...
You could probably recycle a couple electric heated blankets and wrap them around the wing below the (well) insulated cover.
Of course if you then land somewhere away from base and the fuel temperature drops, you're back to square one...
You could probably recycle a couple electric heated blankets and wrap them around the wing below the (well) insulated cover.
Of course if you then land somewhere away from base and the fuel temperature drops, you're back to square one...
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What fuel do you use?
Just wondering what fuel you are using? We fly cessna 172 with a Centurion 2.0 engine, using Jet A1 fuel only. According to our POH we can fly with fuel temp as low as -35 C in flight, but must be above -30 for take off. That's for Jet A1, if using any more than 10% diesel in the fuel, these limits reduce to above -5 C in flight and above 0 to depart.
We never have had a problem with fuel temp. During the winter however it can take ten to fifteen minutes to get the oil temp and coolant temp up to limit for departure, but our aircraft is parked outside!
Does the Austro engine have additional fuel temp limits?
Cheers
Owwnav
We never have had a problem with fuel temp. During the winter however it can take ten to fifteen minutes to get the oil temp and coolant temp up to limit for departure, but our aircraft is parked outside!
Does the Austro engine have additional fuel temp limits?
Cheers
Owwnav
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I'm with owwnav. It needs to be pretty darn cold before you can't fly a DA40 anymore due to low fuel temperatures. The OP lists Malta as location. If so, my belief in Global Warning is out of the window immediately.
But my experience is only with Thielert 1.7 and 2.0 engines, not with the Austro. And we only fly Jet-A, not car diesel.
Anyway, if it's really a problem I would probably experiment with two electric heaters/ventilators under the wings, pointing to the fuel tanks. Something like this: Kachel 1520kcal/2kW/9A/230V - Product
Don't put them too close or you might damage the fiberglass. If the aircraft skin feels hot to the touch, you've already gone way too far. All you want is for the wings to be surrounded by not-quite-freezing air for an hour or so. And don't plug in two heaters in the same circuit, as you will trip the circuit breaker.
But my experience is only with Thielert 1.7 and 2.0 engines, not with the Austro. And we only fly Jet-A, not car diesel.
Anyway, if it's really a problem I would probably experiment with two electric heaters/ventilators under the wings, pointing to the fuel tanks. Something like this: Kachel 1520kcal/2kW/9A/230V - Product
Don't put them too close or you might damage the fiberglass. If the aircraft skin feels hot to the touch, you've already gone way too far. All you want is for the wings to be surrounded by not-quite-freezing air for an hour or so. And don't plug in two heaters in the same circuit, as you will trip the circuit breaker.
Last edited by BackPacker; 9th Feb 2012 at 10:21.
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I haven't flown the NG yet, but the original DA40 has no significant problems when operating in winter conditions - except inadequate cabin heat with OAT below -10°C during cruise. Even when starting with full tanks at -5°C, the fuel in left tank warms up to 5°C (min. required for takeoff when using Diesel, different than Thielert installation in C172) in max. 10 minutes, usually it takes couple of more minutes after the oil is warm.
Just asking - are you warming up engine with load lever at idle or at specified RPM (for DA40D it's 1400)? Increasing the RPM helps significantly, so perhaps you could try it - but read the AFM first - again, I don't know the details of AustroEngine operations.
If you still have trouble however, just change fuel to Jet A-1 for one or two months a year, when temperatures are low.
Just asking - are you warming up engine with load lever at idle or at specified RPM (for DA40D it's 1400)? Increasing the RPM helps significantly, so perhaps you could try it - but read the AFM first - again, I don't know the details of AustroEngine operations.
If you still have trouble however, just change fuel to Jet A-1 for one or two months a year, when temperatures are low.
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No we use jet A-1 and we can't run the ECU test until temp is in the white zone. I have also tried high rpms with no significant improvement. It really is taking an hour to warm up. Oil and coolant etc take five mins tops. Strange...
Thanks for tips.. Will have a further think
Uberwang
Thanks for tips.. Will have a further think
Uberwang
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In the "old" DA40 with the 1.7 Thielert, you were allowed to take off with the fuel temperature gauge still in the yellow, or something like that, provided that you flew Jet-A. Is the Austro-engined DA40NG really that different?
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are you sure about those limitations?
I fly an NG based in LSZA where temperatures are much colder than what you might have in Malta.
I'll check the manual, but I recall no significant fuel temperature limitations when using Jet-A1
I fly an NG based in LSZA where temperatures are much colder than what you might have in Malta.
I'll check the manual, but I recall no significant fuel temperature limitations when using Jet-A1
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Hey Guys
I could Not find anything in AFM in cold Weather ops. The Problem might Not be the Actual fuel temp but the Running of the ECU Test as it Requires fuel temp to be at least 5 degrees. I Flew two days Ago and i had a Problem with the glow plugs. Anyone experienced that? Had to crank for a Good 15 mins with ground power to get it started. Was cold but Surely Not normal for a hangared ac?
Cheers
Uberwang.
I could Not find anything in AFM in cold Weather ops. The Problem might Not be the Actual fuel temp but the Running of the ECU Test as it Requires fuel temp to be at least 5 degrees. I Flew two days Ago and i had a Problem with the glow plugs. Anyone experienced that? Had to crank for a Good 15 mins with ground power to get it started. Was cold but Surely Not normal for a hangared ac?
Cheers
Uberwang.
