Concerned
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From: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Concerned
I am sitting here on my day off scanning pprune when I hear a military fast jet.
I go to the window to see a Typhoon zig zagging through the Balado circuit at around 500ft while there are flexwings in the circuit.
I presume the military are now using Jeppesen databases.
D.O.
I go to the window to see a Typhoon zig zagging through the Balado circuit at around 500ft while there are flexwings in the circuit.
I presume the military are now using Jeppesen databases.
D.O.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: GLASGOW
Is Balado air/ground or non radio???
These Typhoons have been a bit active recently. Two mucking around Montrose a few weeks ago, us at 3000', in a Commander. One broke off and buzzed us from front. Flew under our nose, the other nose up formated on us. Great sight, but camera in back!!!!
I tried to shooo them off, but you know these RAF types....
They always call Perth prior to shooting through the overhead at 500'.
These Typhoons have been a bit active recently. Two mucking around Montrose a few weeks ago, us at 3000', in a Commander. One broke off and buzzed us from front. Flew under our nose, the other nose up formated on us. Great sight, but camera in back!!!!
I tried to shooo them off, but you know these RAF types....
They always call Perth prior to shooting through the overhead at 500'.
Thread Starter
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From: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Balado is technically non radio but they do use the general microlight frequency sometimes.
As you say the Leuchars and Lossie fast jets always call Perth even if they are transiting their usual route well to the north. Not always the case with the transports. In the past few months we've had C130 and C17 in the Zone not speaking.
D.O.
As you say the Leuchars and Lossie fast jets always call Perth even if they are transiting their usual route well to the north. Not always the case with the transports. In the past few months we've had C130 and C17 in the Zone not speaking.
D.O.
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From: around
If it's the disused aerodrome by Loch Leven that I can find Google Maps, then it doesn't appear to be on the latest military half mil (LFC) and only appears as disused (and not active as a minor or microlight aerodrome) on the 1/4 mil special. Might be worth a call/e-mail to AIDU if you're that concerned.
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Oxford
I'd definitely recommend contacting AIDU:
Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Security and Intelligence | DIS | ICG | No1 Aeronautical Information Documents Unit (No 1 AIDU)
to ensure it's charted. They may also be able to issue a NOTAM avoid until the next issue of their charts. I have no doubt that the RAF would be as unhappy as you were if they knew what they'd done.
Tim
Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Security and Intelligence | DIS | ICG | No1 Aeronautical Information Documents Unit (No 1 AIDU)
to ensure it's charted. They may also be able to issue a NOTAM avoid until the next issue of their charts. I have no doubt that the RAF would be as unhappy as you were if they knew what they'd done.
Tim
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From: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
In the past few months we've had C130 and C17 in the Zone not speaking
If you want to use a field like Balado instead of an airfield like Perth, this is gonna happen.
Typhoon drivers from Leuchars are well aware of the activity at Balado, but as for the Coningsby Typhoon drivers....................
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From: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
D.O.
in that case I hope you have reported the incidents officially.
How have you determined the heavies were in fact inside the zone rather than near the outer edges of it?
I suspect that without some form of radar, it would be difficult to be sure. If the C17 was at 2.1 miles or 2,100 feet then might you not think it was at 1,900 feet or 1.9 miles?
AP
The "heavy" infringements were at Perth.
How have you determined the heavies were in fact inside the zone rather than near the outer edges of it?
I suspect that without some form of radar, it would be difficult to be sure. If the C17 was at 2.1 miles or 2,100 feet then might you not think it was at 1,900 feet or 1.9 miles?
AP
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: Lincolnshire
Guys,
Don't you think the Air Force have anything better to do than listen to members of the public whinging about their aircraft (be it fast Jets or Multis) over civvy airfield airspace? I am sure they know what they are doing. I am also sure that the Sqn Ldr Ops, SATCO or Wingco Ops at which ever Station you contact has got enough on his/her plate.
They have to practise somewhere, and for goodness sake, we have few enough aircraft and Stations as it is now...give 'em a break! Be pleased that they are prepared to defend you! I live and work with FJ noise, trainers, multis in the air all the time and find it rather comforting...and... I fly from an RAF Airfield...where all types of aircraft be they light, heavy, slow or fast work around each other..we're all adults!
Don't you think the Air Force have anything better to do than listen to members of the public whinging about their aircraft (be it fast Jets or Multis) over civvy airfield airspace? I am sure they know what they are doing. I am also sure that the Sqn Ldr Ops, SATCO or Wingco Ops at which ever Station you contact has got enough on his/her plate.
They have to practise somewhere, and for goodness sake, we have few enough aircraft and Stations as it is now...give 'em a break! Be pleased that they are prepared to defend you! I live and work with FJ noise, trainers, multis in the air all the time and find it rather comforting...and... I fly from an RAF Airfield...where all types of aircraft be they light, heavy, slow or fast work around each other..we're all adults!
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From: Niort
Oh Grob....
What is the purpose of 'practising' through the circuit of an active airfield? Keeping those collision avoidance skills honed?
I've been through this at two sites now. The RAF use them as turning points for low level exercises - exhibiting the same sort of 'understanding' as Grob demonstrates.
The highpoint was the local liasion officers getting back into their car having promised there would be no more incidents - when 3 Hawks blasted directly up the strip at around 300 ft. Made our point far better than any other protests!
What is the purpose of 'practising' through the circuit of an active airfield? Keeping those collision avoidance skills honed?
I've been through this at two sites now. The RAF use them as turning points for low level exercises - exhibiting the same sort of 'understanding' as Grob demonstrates.
The highpoint was the local liasion officers getting back into their car having promised there would be no more incidents - when 3 Hawks blasted directly up the strip at around 300 ft. Made our point far better than any other protests!
Thread Starter
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From: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Airpolice,
They were not reported. AG radio issued traffic info. The C17 was at the edge of the zone but the C130 was less than 800mtrs 300ft following the A94.
GQ
it will not be a member of the public reporting the Friday incident. It will be the cfi or the airfield owner. Whatever you think it was a serious airprox with an actual risk of collision.
D.O.
They were not reported. AG radio issued traffic info. The C17 was at the edge of the zone but the C130 was less than 800mtrs 300ft following the A94.
GQ
it will not be a member of the public reporting the Friday incident. It will be the cfi or the airfield owner. Whatever you think it was a serious airprox with an actual risk of collision.
D.O.
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: Lincolnshire
I refer the right honourable gentlemen/ladies to my previous post in this thread ref tannoys and/or embargoes....or indeed D.O's own thread "Do you check NOTAMS". All I can say is that our airfield is always notified in some way of these flights, and any restrictions are promulgated.
Admittedly I have no experience of procedures of promulgating info at Civilian airfields. However, NOTAMS are aviation wide aren't they...we obviously do not know the full extent of the incident; and cannot therefore make an accurate assessment, including its severity.
Of course, if someone thinks aviation safety has been breached then they have the right to complain....ok, I have strong views against those who whinge about RAF flying..guess i'm just a tad biased...
But seriously, there must be more to this incident than from one onlooking witnesses perspective and the views of an eclectic mix of contributors to this website...
Admittedly I have no experience of procedures of promulgating info at Civilian airfields. However, NOTAMS are aviation wide aren't they...we obviously do not know the full extent of the incident; and cannot therefore make an accurate assessment, including its severity.
Of course, if someone thinks aviation safety has been breached then they have the right to complain....ok, I have strong views against those who whinge about RAF flying..guess i'm just a tad biased...
But seriously, there must be more to this incident than from one onlooking witnesses perspective and the views of an eclectic mix of contributors to this website...
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
GQ,
Military flying is not generally notamed, no notice whatsoever, (well sometimes the UAS with their Grobs).
Tannoys? For aircraft in the air?
As I said earlier Balado is non radio.
The problem is that it does not appear on military charts.
That will be remedied shortly. No one Will be "bothered." It will be done by a safety reporting system which is already in place.
I consider myself an aviation professional. Not an annoying member of the public.
D.O.
Military flying is not generally notamed, no notice whatsoever, (well sometimes the UAS with their Grobs).
Tannoys? For aircraft in the air?
As I said earlier Balado is non radio.
The problem is that it does not appear on military charts.
That will be remedied shortly. No one Will be "bothered." It will be done by a safety reporting system which is already in place.
I consider myself an aviation professional. Not an annoying member of the public.
D.O.
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From: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
GrobQueen wrote:
No !!!! Sherlock.
And,
I suggest you ask your local SFSO what could be more important than "whinging" about flight safety. How d'you fancy having some old fart in a puddle jumper blundering through your circuit, not talking to anyone? I'll bet you'd all be oh so grown up about it then.
Like lots of others on here, I learned to fly on an RAF airfield, doing oval circuits, sharing the airspace with Tornados and Grobs. Although we had to cope with the UHF/VHF divide, at least we were all talking/listening to the same local controller.
D.O. Why has this not been reported? Are you waiting for it to happen again?
What if I get killed by the next one, will you report it then?
Where is your range and elevation data coming from?
Somewhere out there is a Herc crew in need of either a bollocking or an apology. The longer this drags on unreported, the harder it will be to establish the truth. What effect do you think this is having on the crew of the Hercules? Do you not think there is enough pressure on aircrew students without this kind of suggestion? Cast your mind back to when you were still learning, would you like all this whispering behind your back?
If they did something wrong, they need to get their arses felt for it, and if not, they need to be allowed to do their job without allegations being stated as if they were facts. The UK Airprox Board at [email protected] will be happy to hear from anyone with information on the subject.
I have no experience of procedures of promulgating info at Civilian airfields
And,
Don't you think the Air Force have anything better to do than listen to members of the public whinging about their aircraft (be it fast Jets or Multis) over civvy airfield airspace? I am sure they know what they are doing. I am also sure that the Sqn Ldr Ops, SATCO or Wingco Ops at which ever Station you contact has got enough on his/her plate.
Like lots of others on here, I learned to fly on an RAF airfield, doing oval circuits, sharing the airspace with Tornados and Grobs. Although we had to cope with the UHF/VHF divide, at least we were all talking/listening to the same local controller.
D.O. Why has this not been reported? Are you waiting for it to happen again?
What if I get killed by the next one, will you report it then?
Where is your range and elevation data coming from?
Somewhere out there is a Herc crew in need of either a bollocking or an apology. The longer this drags on unreported, the harder it will be to establish the truth. What effect do you think this is having on the crew of the Hercules? Do you not think there is enough pressure on aircrew students without this kind of suggestion? Cast your mind back to when you were still learning, would you like all this whispering behind your back?
If they did something wrong, they need to get their arses felt for it, and if not, they need to be allowed to do their job without allegations being stated as if they were facts. The UK Airprox Board at [email protected] will be happy to hear from anyone with information on the subject.
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From: Scotland
But seriously, there must be more to this incident than from one onlooking witnesses perspective and the views of an eclectic mix of contributors to this website...