Warning for new Solo pilots

[Learjet-45]

Hi there,

I thought I would share a recent experince I had in the circuit, it was only my second ever Solo, off runway 19 however about 45 minutes in ATC advised of arunway change from 19 to 14 Left.

now if you are new to solo flying this can be quite alarming as you are trying to just get used to the feeling of being alone, and although most would not have a problem with a runway change, it certainly would not be prefernce on your 1st or 2nd Solo.

any how on turning downwind for Runway 19 I was told to follow the Cessna in late down wind, about a few seconds later ATC advised the Cessna and myself in a Cherokee that we were to make left turns and join downwind for runway 14 Left.

again when your new to solo flying it is not ideal to have a runway change!

however I reported to ATC that I was on downwind for runway 14 left when I reached about mid downwind just to check I was in the right position.

ATC seemed surprized I would report this, but I would rather have them surprized than me be on the wrond downwind leg.

I turned on to Baed leg and had lost sight of the Cessna in front of me, ATC asked if I had the traffic in view, I replied I have lost sight of traffic, then out of nowhere I saw the Cessna directly below me as we both turned final!!! obviously they could not see me because of the high wing, and I could not see them at the 1st instance because of my low wing!

ATC immediatley asked me to climb out of the circuit and go around! which I did and then landed safley after completing another circuit.

I am not sure who is in the wrong here, my immediate reaction was the Cessna has taken a longer downwind leg and we have crossed paths that way.

The moral to the story is it was a close call! it could have been worse had ATC not noticed and I descend on to the top of the Cessna on Final!

I would advise any new Solo pilots to be extra aware of the circuit if there is a runway change, and dont be afraid to let ATC know where you are and what you are doing, if in any doubt go around climb out of the circuit and make yourself number 1.

Thank you for reading

[thing]

Glad you're OK. File it away in the 'experiences' bit of your flying brain. I'm still wet behind the ears as a pilot but I think in that situation I would have just kept heading downwind until I saw the no 1. If I still hadn't seen him I would have gone out of cct and done another join. Mind you, you would have hopefully have heard a 'Final' call from him by that time.

Easy to say sitting in a chair on the ground though, I remember my first few post solo trips (only last year) and you're maxed out without having to worry about runway changes. I was downwind no2 the other day and it was a grey, claggy, crap day and I couldn't pick up no 1 (mil a/c with matt grey camouflage doing a straight in approach), I flew past my normal base turn point and asked ATC for his position, 'On the runway' they replied. I looked and I still couldn't see him.

[BackPacker]

I turned on to Baed leg and had lost sight of the Cessna in front of me

Most important lesson I think is NOT to turn base when you are number 2 and have no idea where number 1 is.

You can always ask ATC to call your base turn for you. They will then inform you when to turn base, and ensure sufficient separation between you and the number 1.

Anyway, did you debrief this situation with your instructor? Sounds like an excellent learning opportunity. Particularly if you can follow it up with a visit to the tower, speak with the ATC on duty and maybe even review the radar tapes.

[mad_jock]

Is there anyway that ATC know your a student where you are?

This runway change thing always ends up in a cluster when there is circuit traffic. The wind never changes that quickly they can't land everything then get everyone to taxi up to the new end and fire everyone off again.

[The Heff]

Out of curiousity, did you prefix "Student" to your call-sign? I appreciate that in Australia, this might not be the done thing, but in the UK whenever a student is flying solo he addresses himself as "Student G-ABCD" where G-ABCD is the registration of the aircraft. The advantage of this is that its like wearing 'L Plates' on the radio, and alerts the ATCO/FISO/&c. that you are still under-training for you PPL, and their attitude towards you changes, but not in a patronising or condescending way.

Usually, they'll make more of an effort to speak slower and avoid complicated instructions. Also, in this instance if the Cessna ahead realised that you were a student, he might have decided to leave the circuit and re-join after you had landed. Then again, he might not have.

In speculating on who was in the wrong, if there was a mid-air collision then I think the fault would be attributed to your error; because you failed to maintain visual contact with the Cessna, and failed to obtain that visual before turning your aircraft. Like Thing said, this is easy to state whilst sitting in the comfort of an armchair on terra firma, but something else when in the air on the most demanding part of a flight.

It would be interesting to hear an instructor's opinion, though.

[mad_jock]

I am an Instructor and so is backpacker.

These runway changes with student circuit traffic have always led to bum clinchers and near misses. ATC don't seem to realise how little capacity the solo students have. Unfortaunately the only way of them increasing it is by flying solo.

I had a similar experence at 5 hours with an instructor onboard during my PPL. He never spotted it until I climbed away. Again this was on a runway change because of some tosser coming in a Biz jet straight in to the oppersite end to the current circuit direction at a UNicom field.

Yes the OP is a naughty pilot for turning in without seeing the number one traffic. You can be assured they won't do it again. I never think there is much point labouring the point with debriefs after a student has **** themselves. Just confirm that they know what happened, then confirm that they know how not to let it happen again. If they haven't a clue its back to dual flying for a while until they do.

[Learjet-45]

great lesson learnt for me here - continue downwind until visual contact can be made with number 1.

in OZ it is not the norm to say "Student and call sign" but is a good idea, I had informed ATC that I was going out on my 2nd Solo before take off however.

looking back it seems so simple just to extend downwind! but I was caught up on the runway change.

I was actually dreding a runway change in flight! and when it happened I could not belive my luck.

any how I have certainly learned more from this post than what my de-breif picked up on.

Thanks to all for input.

[BackPacker]

I am an Instructor and so is backpacker.

Not a flight instructor though. My job is in IT education. Flying is just a hobby.

I was actually dreding a runway change in flight!

They can be incredibly complicated, particularly if it also leads to a circuit direction change.

Here's my tactic for dealing with them. Mentally or physically bring out the airport diagram, draw both circuits and the circuit direction. Figure out where the downwind legs intersect. At that intersection point you leave the old circuit and join the new circuit.

If they don't intersect, if you have to overfly the old or the new runway to reach that intersection, if you have to make a turn with a ridiculously large angle, or if you're not happy with the change in general, simply leave the circuit via whatever route is convenient and safe, then rejoin the circuit using the procedures that apply to the new runway direction. Or get detailed instructions, or even vectors, from ATC.

But the best solution for ATC would be to warn all circuit traffic a few minutes ahead of time, give them the option of landing, remaining in the circuit, or leaving the circuit for a few minutes. So that the circuit is either completely empty, or only contains experienced pilots that have had a few minutes to prepare, when the runway change is effected. Likewise, incoming aircraft should be held outside the circuit for a minute or so, and aircraft taxiing for departure should be sent to the new runway ahead of time.

[thing]

I was actually dreding a runway change in flight! and when it happened I could not belive my luck.

Ah, but now that is has happened, it's one of those things you can mentally prepare for next time. I still before I go flying think 'What's the worst scenario I will find myself in on this trip' other than mid air, alien abduction, that sort of thing. More like if you've always had a zone crossing through x airspace, it doesn't mean you will always get one, so have a plan B to route around it. Practical stuff like that.

[mad_jock]

Fair enough backpacker.

And for lear.

Here is the accident which caused the "student" prefix to come into use in the UK .

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...BB%2007-07.pdf

Another is to always have an escape plan if things start getting a bit to much or confusing. Leaving the circuit to go to a well known point in the area then rejoining from there after all the excitement has died down would be in my book. Discuss it with your instructor first thought, what to you might seem a sensible point might be smack in the middle of the instrument approach.

Another thing is that ATCO's have to go through the same learning curve as pilots with building up experence "solo" Have a chat with the controller and tell them what happened why you cocked up. Then maybe if they have the same situation again they won't leave it up to the second solo student to sort out thier own seperation. Over controlling is a pain in the bum but sometimes it is required to ensure everyone is safe.

[dont overfil]

If you lose awareness, or there's a confusing runway change, especially at an uncontrolled field It's not a bad idea to climb back into the overhead or at least the dead side.

[mad_jock]

Different rules in OZ overfill, that might be a really good idea or a particualrly silly one.

[dont overfil]

S'pose OZ might be different. However bu**ering off up or out 'till you get the brain sorted is the thing to do.

Just thinking with differing dead sides, up might be best unless atc says different.

[Crash one]

My two-pennorth for what it's worth. During circuit work & an EFATO I hadn't a clue where I was for a few mins. A mile out of the usual circuit pattern & it all looks different. Could it not be an idea if Instructors spent more time showing the outer edges of the "circuit" than just the up round & down bit?
D.O Loss of awareness is just that. Where the hell is the dead side/overhead?

[dont overfil]

Crash one,
Overhead starts with up. (towards the clouds in Fife).
D.O.

[Crash one]

Crash one,
Overhead starts with up. (towards the clouds in Fife).
D.O.

................

[Learjet-45]

Thanks for the comments, after researching further it apears that a similar thing happened at the same airport a few years ago see the link below, very tragically the Solo pilot was not as lucky as I was and died on his 1st ever Solo.

The first report blames the ATC for inadequet seperation

ATC Report Aerodrome controller criticised over crash - YouTube

News Buliten C152 and PA28 mid air collision in Melbourne AUS, 27 Aug 08 - YouTube

[mad_jock]

Up is ok until there is someone practising holds in the overhead or doing an over head join.

The best plan is different for each airport and can be dependent on the local rules and traffic situation.

And discussion stimulates thought, which then leads to learning and experence which can be related back to real life.

So crash one your two penny's worth has equal weight as mine or any other pilot. Sometimes instructors focus on items and presume all students will get the other items. PPrune has changed the way I instruct and that is as much from the feed back of students as it is of the advice of fellow instructors.

[Redbird72]

During training, my instructor briefed me on the procedure should the runway change during a circuit whenever the wind was sufficiently light & variable for this to be likely.

However, starting training at the same place as the events in MJ's link and only a year later, there was probably an increased focus on what unanticipated events in the circuit can do to a student's capacity to cope.

Not long post qualification, I once arrived at an airfield at the same time as 30 foreign microlights - all arriving from various directions and a mixed bag of circuit direction/height. Finding myself ill at ease and at one point far too slow, I left the circuit to go sightseeing for 15 mins and returned once it had all gone quiet!

[TractorBoy]

Everyone has their own ways of coping with these events. Personally I'd leave the circuit, go a few miles out and sort out the new circuit pattern in a less stressful, safer environment. It might add 10 mins on to my flight, but IMHO it's worth it.

I've also had several jets inbound at the same time as me (into an A/G station). Again, just sit a few miles away, enjoy the sight of them doing their run and breaks, and once they were out of the way, continue my join.