Thought experiment - school taildragger
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which taildragger ?
Genghis
Bring back the trusty Condor I say !
But no, it's a cloth bomber so it needs hangarage, therefore it won't fit the wish list. Pity as they're a good aeroplane, albeit not quick. Plenty of teeth though !
I agree the Cessna 140 would be good. But because it's only 85 horsepower and is no rocket ship it needs plenty of attention to become airborne in an orderly fashion. Stick or yoke doesn't really matter, but a stick is preferable.
Being 85 horsepower, the hourly price won't be too silly.. (OK, shouldn't)
Sherburn had a 140 but no-one loved it, I suspect because it was too basic.... Anyway it went on to a better life.
Similarly their CAP10 proved to be a very wrong choice and wasn't cheap to hire, despite it being fun to fly.
As said before, the ideal aircraft is one that needs a roof over its head. 'Owt else would be second best...
Bring back the trusty Condor I say !
But no, it's a cloth bomber so it needs hangarage, therefore it won't fit the wish list. Pity as they're a good aeroplane, albeit not quick. Plenty of teeth though !
I agree the Cessna 140 would be good. But because it's only 85 horsepower and is no rocket ship it needs plenty of attention to become airborne in an orderly fashion. Stick or yoke doesn't really matter, but a stick is preferable.
Being 85 horsepower, the hourly price won't be too silly.. (OK, shouldn't)
Sherburn had a 140 but no-one loved it, I suspect because it was too basic.... Anyway it went on to a better life.
Similarly their CAP10 proved to be a very wrong choice and wasn't cheap to hire, despite it being fun to fly.
As said before, the ideal aircraft is one that needs a roof over its head. 'Owt else would be second best...
Guest
Posts: n/a
The Chipmunk is no problem for a motivated an-initio student. We've had 3 in the past 4 years; two middle-aged and one teenager. The teenager soloed at 16, so it can't be that difficult.
It does have a low crosswind limit (10 knots) but in military service it was 15 so the aeroplane is well inside its comfort zone in civvy life.
It's bloody cold for the instructor in winter though....
It does have a low crosswind limit (10 knots) but in military service it was 15 so the aeroplane is well inside its comfort zone in civvy life.
It's bloody cold for the instructor in winter though....
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the north
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Rallye might look a bit individual but you could earn money tugging gliders and it would make a great shortstrip teaching machine.
There are also a few CofA Cubs/Vagabonds, in fact any new imports would have to be.
Aerobatics - either Cap or Citabria/Decathlon.
There are also a few CofA Cubs/Vagabonds, in fact any new imports would have to be.
Aerobatics - either Cap or Citabria/Decathlon.
I know nothing about the type, but would a lower powered PZL Wilga be suitable?
This thread sums up the state of GA aircraft available today. The criteria Ghengis stipulated shouldn't that limiting, but there just isn't anything out there on the market which fits all the requirements. Accepting that anything bought will be a compromise
The requirement "a machine I can have a bit of fun in" to my mind means it must be aerobatic. You would also want to be able to go somewhere two up with a bit of baggage. (I don't necessarily mean the wife!). So now we're looking at only a couple of aircraft.
The Chippy is an obvious choice, but expensive to run with a costly engine and lots of TDs. Also, handling is perfect in the air, but prone to damage on the ground. It shouldn't scare off potential renters - they should want to fly it! It doesn't deserve it's reputaion as being tricky. I have sent lot's of ab-initios solo in them with about ten hours total time.
CAP10s are great, but again expensive and the wooden spar ones are getting problematic. The carbon spar aircraft are very expensive to buy.
The Deacthalon is a good choice. Easy to fly, aerobatic, touring is an option and reasonable maintenance cost, especially if it's a standard with a fixed prop. But it's very stable and nowhere near as good as a CAP10 or a Chippy for aeros - albeit inverted capable.
But these all require hangaring. Which leaves the Rallye and the C150 Aerobat. I never considerd the Aerobat as a proper aerobatic mount. More of a spam can that can do a loop and a barrell roll. Tailwheel versions are available in the USA, but I wouldn't consider them. I've never seen the taildragger Rallye before, I think that would be fun. I used to own a Rallye 150ST and it's a much maligned aircraft. It's well made, handles nicely, the ST is aerobatic and has great short field performance - as well has having four seats. But they do suffer corrosion problems, particularly on the tailplane spar. Hangaring them is a good idea.
Not an easy task. Can't you get your students to design and build a suitable aircraft?
The requirement "a machine I can have a bit of fun in" to my mind means it must be aerobatic. You would also want to be able to go somewhere two up with a bit of baggage. (I don't necessarily mean the wife!). So now we're looking at only a couple of aircraft.
The Chippy is an obvious choice, but expensive to run with a costly engine and lots of TDs. Also, handling is perfect in the air, but prone to damage on the ground. It shouldn't scare off potential renters - they should want to fly it! It doesn't deserve it's reputaion as being tricky. I have sent lot's of ab-initios solo in them with about ten hours total time.
CAP10s are great, but again expensive and the wooden spar ones are getting problematic. The carbon spar aircraft are very expensive to buy.
The Deacthalon is a good choice. Easy to fly, aerobatic, touring is an option and reasonable maintenance cost, especially if it's a standard with a fixed prop. But it's very stable and nowhere near as good as a CAP10 or a Chippy for aeros - albeit inverted capable.
But these all require hangaring. Which leaves the Rallye and the C150 Aerobat. I never considerd the Aerobat as a proper aerobatic mount. More of a spam can that can do a loop and a barrell roll. Tailwheel versions are available in the USA, but I wouldn't consider them. I've never seen the taildragger Rallye before, I think that would be fun. I used to own a Rallye 150ST and it's a much maligned aircraft. It's well made, handles nicely, the ST is aerobatic and has great short field performance - as well has having four seats. But they do suffer corrosion problems, particularly on the tailplane spar. Hangaring them is a good idea.
Not an easy task. Can't you get your students to design and build a suitable aircraft?
I learn't to fly in a Chippie. I'm sure I'd have worried more if anyone had told me that it was more difficult because it was tailwheel - ignorance is a wonderful thing.
There are some pretty cheap, fun, Maules out there, though perhaps I'm biased.
No aeros, but seeing how short you can land is a great way to pass some time.
Fly safe, have fun, Sam.
There are some pretty cheap, fun, Maules out there, though perhaps I'm biased.
No aeros, but seeing how short you can land is a great way to pass some time.
Fly safe, have fun, Sam.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Citabria with an 0-320 fixed pitch prop (Mogas STC) a metal spar and hangarage.
It's on Annex 2, it's cheaper to buy than a cub but more powerful and also you don't need a CAMO if you run it on mogas it's even cheaper. Has good spares support and rugged undercarriage, it's also easy to land and keep control on the ground so you don't need to worry too much that people will groundloop it.
To be honest, there's only a very few people that will pay the premium to fly nicer planes, they say they will of course right up until the point where the get to choose between £110 for the Tomahawk or £180 for something fun.
Still if I was to own a certificate aircraft of that type it would be that very plane, there was a chap in Ireland selling one a while ago but I couldn't bring myself to wear the cost of the annual year in year out.
It's on Annex 2, it's cheaper to buy than a cub but more powerful and also you don't need a CAMO if you run it on mogas it's even cheaper. Has good spares support and rugged undercarriage, it's also easy to land and keep control on the ground so you don't need to worry too much that people will groundloop it.
To be honest, there's only a very few people that will pay the premium to fly nicer planes, they say they will of course right up until the point where the get to choose between £110 for the Tomahawk or £180 for something fun.
Still if I was to own a certificate aircraft of that type it would be that very plane, there was a chap in Ireland selling one a while ago but I couldn't bring myself to wear the cost of the annual year in year out.
Actually there are choice if you are choosing something for personal flying it's when you add in the CofA things get screwed. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know why this.
Edited to add I'm currently flying Pitts specials and extra aircraft both fun tail draggers
Edited to add I'm currently flying Pitts specials and extra aircraft both fun tail draggers
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Londonish
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I learn't to fly in a Chippie. I'm sure I'd have worried more if anyone had told me that it was more difficult because it was tailwheel - ignorance is a wonderful thing.
I did an hour in a chippie and loved it, however you should've heard the spiel from one of the instructors about it being the training aircraft for a spitfire, having the handling traits to go with it, zero visibility , nasty swing, and on and on - he built it up to be quite a monster.
In the event, the guy I flew with (older) was altogether zero drama. Only issues were some funny up-lines due to me failing to adapt to the engine rotation, and incessantly checking the brakes 'cos of the little note about spins and limiting rudder travel(!)
Have also flown a Cessna 180 (never got on top of, found quite a handful on go-around), Decathlon (a fair bit, love it), S2A (now that has visibility issues..), and the EA200 (briefly). Of all of them, I'd buy a decathlon for the do-it-all aeroplane, but there's the issue of where to house it..
P.S. There are very few fun&practical do-it-all cars either. They're all nosewheel drive too
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York
Age: 53
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But there are very few C150 taildraggers about and those that are are well past there sell by date.
How about a Tecnam p92TD? Proven aluminium airframe with a proven and fuel efficient rotax engine.
Sadly not on the market yet
How about a Tecnam p92TD? Proven aluminium airframe with a proven and fuel efficient rotax engine.
Sadly not on the market yet
Moderator
Thread Starter
(Tecnam P92 Tail Dragger first flight - News - Costruzioni Aeronautiche Tecnam)
G
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hhmmm....I wonder if those main wheels will migrate aft with flight test experience?
I've only flown the Cessna 180 on floats but I thought on wheels it would be great. Nice compromise between lower and higher powered equivalents. Vp prop though so added expense there.
I've only flown the Cessna 180 on floats but I thought on wheels it would be great. Nice compromise between lower and higher powered equivalents. Vp prop though so added expense there.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Requirements:
- Reasonably inexpensive: I need to buy and insure it after all.
- Reasonably inexpensive: I need to buy and insure it after all.
EDIT: Guys watch this and tell me it doesn't make you want a Husky!
Moderator
Thread Starter
Ghengis do you think it will be reasonably inexpensive?
Seriously, even if it's not going to be affordable for me, a new all-metal CofA taildragger is something that will make the aviation world just a little better place.
G
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys watch this and tell me it doesn't make you want a Husky!