Thought experiment - school taildragger
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Thought experiment - school taildragger
I'm not likely to do this - I haven't got enough spare cash.
However, let's say I'm interested in buying a taildragger to lease back to a flying school. Creating a bit of teaching work for myself, as well as availability when it's not being used by the school of a machine I can have a bit of fun in.
Requirements:
- Reasonably inexpensive: I need to buy and insure it after all.
- Challenging and interesting to fly, without being so challenging that the average PPL won't crack it.
- Doesn't need hangaring.
- Obviously, dual controls.
- And inevitably, on a CofA.
So, assuming I had the money to do this - what would I buy?
G
However, let's say I'm interested in buying a taildragger to lease back to a flying school. Creating a bit of teaching work for myself, as well as availability when it's not being used by the school of a machine I can have a bit of fun in.
Requirements:
- Reasonably inexpensive: I need to buy and insure it after all.
- Challenging and interesting to fly, without being so challenging that the average PPL won't crack it.
- Doesn't need hangaring.
- Obviously, dual controls.
- And inevitably, on a CofA.
So, assuming I had the money to do this - what would I buy?
G
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I suppose a converted C150 would fit the bill as it would be relatively cheap and weather hardy .... Better something with a stick, but I can't think of one that fits your criteria unless perhaps a Chippy with a non Gypsy engine presents itself?
SS
SS
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I've thought about C180/C185, but they seem a bit expensive on the very rare occasions one comes up. That said yes, I can see a C180 on AFORS that would fit the bill quite well.
Sorry, but a tailwheel is nowhere near enough change to make a C150 interesting to fly!
Any advance on a C180?
G
Sorry, but a tailwheel is nowhere near enough change to make a C150 interesting to fly!
Any advance on a C180?
G
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It awaits your students Genghis!
Half the purchase and operating cost of a C180/185, will land in the water more than once, and the student gets retractable and constant speed propeller time too!
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Hmm, looking at prices:
C180 about £40k
C170 about £30k
C140 about £20k
Hard to see why the C140 is that much less fun for everybody than the 170 and 180, and they're all just as good looking.
I think that fun 'though the Thurston Teal looks, Silvaire's C140 does sound like a jolly good option. Presumably similar running costs to a C150, but nice?
G
C180 about £40k
C170 about £30k
C140 about £20k
Hard to see why the C140 is that much less fun for everybody than the 170 and 180, and they're all just as good looking.
I think that fun 'though the Thurston Teal looks, Silvaire's C140 does sound like a jolly good option. Presumably similar running costs to a C150, but nice?
G
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Stop messing about
Cessna 195 Business liner !
Cessna 195 Businessliner - Image by Pete Morgan-Lucas from Airports - Photography (21615335) | fotocommunity
Ok so it might not tick the right boxes but fun it would be
Cessna 195 Business liner !
Cessna 195 Businessliner - Image by Pete Morgan-Lucas from Airports - Photography (21615335) | fotocommunity
Ok so it might not tick the right boxes but fun it would be
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Most 120’s are permit, 140’s are CofA. The 140 was designed for what you have in mind and is Ideal based on my experience of them. An aerobatic machine would be great but would greatly increase your costs.
Rod1
Rod1
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I thought exactly the same thing and I came to the conclusion that currently there isn't a suitable taildragger for flight training.
120/140 are all pretty long in the tooth. There isn't a huge number of them around. Alot are on permit and those that are not the engines are out or high on time.
150/2 taildraggers again they aren't many around and of the ones that I am aware of are well and truly worn out.
I even emailed American Champion to see if they would be interested a putting a 80hp rotax in the champ but they never replied. Now that would be a good training aircraft.
120/140 are all pretty long in the tooth. There isn't a huge number of them around. Alot are on permit and those that are not the engines are out or high on time.
150/2 taildraggers again they aren't many around and of the ones that I am aware of are well and truly worn out.
I even emailed American Champion to see if they would be interested a putting a 80hp rotax in the champ but they never replied. Now that would be a good training aircraft.
To most recreational fliers, a taildragger has nothing but disadvantages (harder to land, more expensive on insurance, less common thus more expensive on maintenance)
To be successfully rented out, it must be commercially viable, so must fit a niche. Two options I can see:
-) good looks & rent out for hard cash to those who have it, and fall for good looks. Example: Extra 300. Added advantage: instructor hours offered at stiff rate too.
-) affordable cost, though not minimal, for those who want something special once in a while, whether looks or aerobatics or both. Here, a microlight like the FK12 Comet might do best.
-) compromise could include vintage trainer, most of which would be aerobatic too: Chipmunk, Zlin, Tiger Moth, SV4
For all options, I think it might be hard to rent out legally - weren't for instance microlights supposed to be never operated for profit? But a clever lawyer/accountant might find a loophole there.
To be successfully rented out, it must be commercially viable, so must fit a niche. Two options I can see:
-) good looks & rent out for hard cash to those who have it, and fall for good looks. Example: Extra 300. Added advantage: instructor hours offered at stiff rate too.
-) affordable cost, though not minimal, for those who want something special once in a while, whether looks or aerobatics or both. Here, a microlight like the FK12 Comet might do best.
-) compromise could include vintage trainer, most of which would be aerobatic too: Chipmunk, Zlin, Tiger Moth, SV4
For all options, I think it might be hard to rent out legally - weren't for instance microlights supposed to be never operated for profit? But a clever lawyer/accountant might find a loophole there.
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Genghis - if you can compromise your spec to include hangarage, you'll open up a whole raft of additional options. Cub, Jodel, Chippie, even a Tiger(!) etc, but I would agree with previous posts recommending a Citabria, or it's sportier brother the Decathlon. Tailwheel, stick, good performance, good ground handling and aerobatic.
If not, nice 140 or 170 or 180 are lovely but not cheap, and in deference to their age, I wouldn't choose to leave them outside either.
Just imo.
If not, nice 140 or 170 or 180 are lovely but not cheap, and in deference to their age, I wouldn't choose to leave them outside either.
Just imo.
Last edited by fwjc; 24th Jan 2012 at 20:50. Reason: Remove false "link"
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'Shame about the Chipmunk, though I hardly think that it's being a taildragger was a factor in it's blowing over. Any aircraft which can generate a few thousand pounds of lift in a 40+ MPH wind, is going to get blown over it it's only held down by 150 pounds of stuff in pails! It sure is a shame that people who tie down planes don't learn this lesson much earlier, and save a lot of planes from being wrecked!
I would not rush to judgement that maintaining a taildragger is more expensive. Oleos can cost a lot more to maintain than a tailwheel, and are much less tolerant of being "somewhat" airworthy. Nosewheels in general are also much more costly when you break one off!
less common thus more expensive on maintenance)