Ultra long hauler

Yes. You know what I meant, but "spin" is not the right phraseology in aviation to describe a little detour, I guess!!

It´s really just a bit of semantics we´re dealing with here.
Yes, you are in an airplane; yes you operate the controls so technically you are flying. What they REALLY mean by that particular phrase; in my opinion anyway; is "to stay well focussed on your flying--> prevent the plane from stalling, maintain sufficient altitude, check for traffic" etc etc.
Sounds obvious, but an "overloaded" pilot could easily overlook these things in the heat of the moment; I guess.

Makes sense…….and each and every pilot will have to make that split-second decision: "how far do I go fault finding?".
I could switch on my 2nd fuel pump and push that button again while I fly; I agree with you…..that takes 2 seconds; BUT…….this all depends where you are at the time!

###Ultra Long Hauler###

Crash one

In my opinion the "Impossible turn" scenario pre-suposes that things have gone tits up at a low level, climb attitude, climb speed, therefore there is no time to play around with re-starts, fuel pumps, carb heat, the right pair of sunglasses etc. Isn't it just a case of "Oh ****e, stuff the nose over to keep flying & decide whether the turn can be made or not?
As for "Aviate, Navigate, Comunicate", I think we know that & I don't think Mary was suggesting that we all need reminded, just that SOME are under the impression that if the radio packs up the thing is about to fall out of the sky.Perhaps it should be pointed out that most of us know it will not Perhaps after the turn is established there may be time to try something else. Depending on brain capacity which will vary!!

KMSS

All the exchange of information and ideas on this is valuable and thought provoking, but maybe the thought experiments and practice at altitude can't quite get one ready for it. In my experience it's one of those things where experience and drills will take over when it actually happens. I used to instruct in gliders and posted previously on this on a previous thread.

I had two actual unplanned events on aerotow, which is more closely related to the power EFATO than a winch tow. Both involved successful returns for a downwind landing. One was a partial power loss of the tow plane and the other was an actual rope break in turbulent conditions. I attributed the successful outcomes to the combination of: a) glider pilots spend a lot of time thermalling in a steep bank near stall speed in turbulent conditions, and so the basic handling skills are actually in the hands, so to speak; b) we actually practiced the low-level event, in which the visual cues of pitch and ground perspective in a steep bank are much different than at altitude and can be disorienting at first; and c) I formed a plan on every takeoff that included wind awareness and terrain, and on takeoff would mentally be running my options at each point until I could make a full traffic pattern.

On some takeoffs I ruled out a return either before takeoff or shortly after liftoff due to wind and turbulence. For example, a straight in approach into a strong wind (very low groundspeed) to a well chosen farmer's field would be safer than a landing on the airport with that strong wind at my back, risking a possible groundloop or over-run. Given that most power pilots never have the opportunity to actually train for "impossible turn," avoiding it may be the best choice from a risk assessment point of view.

Not a question of who's a better pilot; rather just accepting the realities of how one responds in a stressful situation. When the tunnel vision sets in, we usually act in a very experiential way, and if the experience via training isn't actually there, then.....?

mary meagher

Intercepted suggests that you might have sufficient time in the event of Engine Failure after Takeoff, to turn on "fuel pump, carb heat, change tanks" WITHOUT LOOKING INSIDE THE COCKPIT??? O my. That does indeed presume a great familiarity with your faltering chariot, to locate the right handle or switch to pull without looking inside the cockpit.

We have often been amused watching a glider on approach when the pilot, realising he is overshooting, raises and lowers the undercarriage, under the impression he is deploying the airbrakes (spoilers).

So our usual recommendation to the student is to look at the knob before you pull it......

which could possibly distract from monitoring attitude, angle, airspeed, all of which are rather important, to say nothing of avoiding any traffic should you actually be trying to land at an airfield.

The advantage of a nicely chosen farmers field is you don't have to worry about the traffic....or the radio, for that matter.

Crash one

Apart from the sheep!!

The500man

There seems to be no shortage of people happy to tell us that we can't maintain a glide attitude with level wings or look inside the cockpit for a single second to toggle a switch without dieing. Why discuss turnbacks when we're all so incapable of flying in a straight line?

I was wrong though, because Foxmoth told me so in capital letters! I'm very sorry, option 1 clearly should have been freeze-up, faff with controls and wait for it all to come up in a heap. With this option you also don't need to look inside the cockpit at your airspeed. Job done, cheers.

foxmoth

Certainly not what I said Just pointing out that that is what a lot of pilots actually do - I see from your profile that you fly a Pitts so presumably you are reasonably experienced and find it fairly natural to fly the aircraft and do other tasks at the same time, but even pilots like yourself STILL need to fly the aircraft first, the fact that you do this naturally and can multitask is great, but the fact is that you DO fly the aircraft as your first priority. Unfortunately others are not that experienced and need to have that more at the front of their thinking

24Carrot

A chattier version of the Rogers technical paper appears here.
Should You Turnback?

It includes the line:
... which this thread would appear to bear out!