Aerobatic tourer... suggestions?
Join Date: Apr 2000
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If you want 2 seats then an RV7/8. I bought one it was so good.
If you want 4 seats then Yak 18T. I fly one when I need 4 seats, full fuel and bags. Then want to have fun at the destination.
Both have great range, both have good basic aero capabilities.
If your feeling wealthy then the Sbach 342 with the optional luggage rack is the aircraft of the moment. Its fast and FULLY aerobatic and long range.
Decisions decisions decisions
If you want 4 seats then Yak 18T. I fly one when I need 4 seats, full fuel and bags. Then want to have fun at the destination.
Both have great range, both have good basic aero capabilities.
If your feeling wealthy then the Sbach 342 with the optional luggage rack is the aircraft of the moment. Its fast and FULLY aerobatic and long range.
Decisions decisions decisions
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Oh, and what about the Yak-52? Capable of Intermediate+ aerobatics, and good range for touring too. Plus the 'wow' factor of arriving in something ex-Soviet. The noise alone will send shivers down your spine. But you've got to have big pockets to fly it.
They are the most fantastic machines but spending more than about ninety minutes aboard in one go can best be described as "rigourous". Standard fuel tanks don't give a great deal more than two hours endurance plus reserves if you're being gentle and they don't all have long-range tanks fitted.
If your feeling wealthy then the Sbach 342 with the optional luggage rack is the aircraft of the moment. Its fast and FULLY aerobatic and long range.
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Originally Posted by jxc
That Falco is a very nice looking machine and if you stuck in a Diesel engine would be perfect
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Both Thielert and Austro Engine have very strict requirements about maximum negative loads on the engine and in most installations, intentional negative manuevers are prohibited (although the aircraft structurally withstand the CS-23 required load). I doubt you'll see a diesel-equipped aerobatic aircraft very soon, especially with all current engines having such high fuel pressure requirements (Common Rail). However if AustroEngine (in co-operation with Steyr Motors) really developes a mechanical injected diesel engine, it probably could be modified with a dry sump for aerobatical flights. The real question is: is the market for such an engine large enough?
http://www.raikhlin.com/RED-3s.pdf
Dry sump, you'll note. Not sure what would happen to the crankshaft when you tumble the brute though.
The front seat of the 342 is so well reclined that all you need is a small duvet and a pillow and you've got the perfect recipe for an in-flight kip. Sadly, my attempt to get some shut-eye was interrupted by the estimable Phillip S. demonstrating what the Sbach does when you put the controls in all of the corners, repeatedly. Stonking bit of kit. Can't wait to see what happens when they stick an M14P on the front.
Another consideration is the aerobatic version of the 33 model Bonanza. More for touring than wild aeros but still has the ability. +6/-3 g as I recall, and maximum of two occupants with empty baggage bay for aeros. Also weight limited for aeros. Still, if you want to cruise somewhere in reasonable comfort, still have the ability for yippee flights, and be able to obtain parts it's a consideration. Major catch is that it will cost you Bonanza purchase & operating costs. Beech aren't known for being particularly cheap.
Last edited by Tinstaafl; 6th Oct 2012 at 16:31.
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As long as "anything goes" you will find it hard to make a choice that suits YOU. You have to find out what will suit you, considering:
- purchase budget
- operating budget
- operating performance demands (touring)
- operating performance demands (aerobatics)
- insurance considerations
- average hours per year flown (touring)
- average hours per year flown (aerobatics)
Make a list of the things and aircraft can have or do, and to which degree you find each property important, by giving each item a value number.
For instance, long-range capability, more than two seats, luggage volume, speed, short field capability, etc.
Have a look at many aircraft for sale (PlaneCheck, Trade-A-Plane, GA Market, magazines, notice boards, etc.)
Grade each offer against your list. Add up the values.
The total gives you an idea how well the aircraft answers to your wishes.
You may have to refine your list a few times as things crop up you haven't thought about before. Re-evaluate old results accordingly.
After a time of making consequent evaluations, you get a prety good idea which aircraft type is the best for you. And you will have made your discovery in a dispassionate way, without being lured into wanting things that don't matter very much.
It may lead you to types you haven't thought about before and surprising conclusions.
You say you want an aircraft you can use for touring as well as areobatics. Would you be spending more time touring or more doing aerobatics? What kind of aerobatics? Are you planning to enter competitions, or do you just want to be able to loop and roll and fly upside down?
- purchase budget
- operating budget
- operating performance demands (touring)
- operating performance demands (aerobatics)
- insurance considerations
- average hours per year flown (touring)
- average hours per year flown (aerobatics)
Make a list of the things and aircraft can have or do, and to which degree you find each property important, by giving each item a value number.
For instance, long-range capability, more than two seats, luggage volume, speed, short field capability, etc.
Have a look at many aircraft for sale (PlaneCheck, Trade-A-Plane, GA Market, magazines, notice boards, etc.)
Grade each offer against your list. Add up the values.
The total gives you an idea how well the aircraft answers to your wishes.
You may have to refine your list a few times as things crop up you haven't thought about before. Re-evaluate old results accordingly.
After a time of making consequent evaluations, you get a prety good idea which aircraft type is the best for you. And you will have made your discovery in a dispassionate way, without being lured into wanting things that don't matter very much.
It may lead you to types you haven't thought about before and surprising conclusions.
You say you want an aircraft you can use for touring as well as areobatics. Would you be spending more time touring or more doing aerobatics? What kind of aerobatics? Are you planning to enter competitions, or do you just want to be able to loop and roll and fly upside down?
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Really? I'm pretty big and I find it very spacious - it's expensive though.
Citabrias less so and you can get a nice 150 HP one which will scoot along at a reasonable speed and get an STC to run on MOGAS. Thing is, CofA aircraft make little sense for someone doing personal only flying. I'm much more interested in Permit aircraft (because of the lack of need for a form 1)
On a permit the RVs are common but rarely for sale and very good aircraft provided they have been well built. Recently given the right to get a permit is the bulldog, 180Hp engine, full aeros, actual ergonomics and a tough bird for less than £30k and will be cheap to maintain once on a permit, I'd buy one of those if I was looking for such a thing. I want an RV eventually though, particularly the 8 but I just don't have the money - yet
.
Citabrias less so and you can get a nice 150 HP one which will scoot along at a reasonable speed and get an STC to run on MOGAS. Thing is, CofA aircraft make little sense for someone doing personal only flying. I'm much more interested in Permit aircraft (because of the lack of need for a form 1)
On a permit the RVs are common but rarely for sale and very good aircraft provided they have been well built. Recently given the right to get a permit is the bulldog, 180Hp engine, full aeros, actual ergonomics and a tough bird for less than £30k and will be cheap to maintain once on a permit, I'd buy one of those if I was looking for such a thing. I want an RV eventually though, particularly the 8 but I just don't have the money - yet
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Dan - nothing to do with lack of space as such, she loved the Super Cub, just the view forward isn't so good & the wing might be a little bit more intrusive in the view from the back - don't know, never sat there anyway 
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I've been informed that I need to sit in the back of the cub if my wife is to come flying again, she just needs to figure out how to twiddle the knobs on the TXP and the radio
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Gents, let me remove some dust from this thread: recently somebody mentioned to me the Grob G 115: I checked the EASA type certificate and I found that from the version -D the aircraft, together with other features, has a useful cargo allowance of 55 kg: for a 2 seater acro is really not bad! Does anybody have experience with this cheaper copy of the SF260?
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Don't know if many are still around. We used to operate a Fuji 200 which had a reasonable aerobatic capability and 4 seats. Great for touring and you could throw it around too!
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Falco F8 and the GeneralAvia F22 are similar and I think related (? Both Stelio Frati designs).
If you like the 260 have a look at this:-
http://www.falcomposite.com/index.php
This is almost an SF260 that is cheap to own.
If you like the 260 have a look at this:-
http://www.falcomposite.com/index.php
This is almost an SF260 that is cheap to own.
Last edited by rjtjrt; 6th Oct 2012 at 09:21. Reason: Stupid predictive text thingy, or my typing!
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Falco F8 and the GeneralAvis F22 are similar and I think related (? Both Stelio Frati designs).
I saw the Furio at Oshkosh 2011 and I was in contact with G. Nustrini, but in spite of moderate running costs the a/c has a surprisingly high purchase price (more than 350.000 NZ dollars for a decently equipped one) to which transportation to Europe must be added... on top of that the a/c is still not available on second hand market (too new, of course)...
Last edited by Zio Nick; 6th Oct 2012 at 08:11.
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G115D
Flew about 40+ hours on the G115D some years ago. Pretty nice handling, roll rate a little on the slow side. I'd guess about 90 degrees/second but faster than a Slingsby?
Very capable for recreational aerobatics and should be possible to fly Sportsman.
With a composite airframe, 2 seats and 180 HP with constant speed prop the cruise speed is somewhat disappointing. I rarely flew faster than 120 KIAS cruise and it's pretty loud. When talking about loud, so is the electric fuel pump!..
From what I know the running cost are pretty high and if you don't require a certified aircraft I'd certainly have a look at the RV6 or 7 instead. Excellent allround performance and available as either taildragger or nosedragger.
Very capable for recreational aerobatics and should be possible to fly Sportsman.
With a composite airframe, 2 seats and 180 HP with constant speed prop the cruise speed is somewhat disappointing. I rarely flew faster than 120 KIAS cruise and it's pretty loud. When talking about loud, so is the electric fuel pump!..
From what I know the running cost are pretty high and if you don't require a certified aircraft I'd certainly have a look at the RV6 or 7 instead. Excellent allround performance and available as either taildragger or nosedragger.
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Tayside Aviation operates the G115 D2 at Dundee. Inverted fuel and oil systems, slow roll rate, no radio nav gear except a basic GPS. Good for basic/standard aeros, reasonable touring potential but the biggest problem is that there are only about 6 in existence and Tayside owns 5 of them!
My choice would be a Firefly M260 Swift Aircraft | Firefly Aircraft but if insurance is too much then maybe not - but will it be any cheaper on other aerobatic tourers?
My choice would be a Firefly M260 Swift Aircraft | Firefly Aircraft but if insurance is too much then maybe not - but will it be any cheaper on other aerobatic tourers?
